Talk Beer Home Brew Club - Poll

[Beerontwowheels]

Hey all,

This poll is to gauge interest in forming a legit Talk Beer Homebrew club. The fine folks over at The Brewing Network have proven that an online community can in fact be a homebrew club, and a successful one at that (if we're into that sort of thing).

Anyway, before any of us invest too much time in chartering a club, registering with AHA (if we choose to do that), I wanted to make sure there was enough interest in such a club.

Use the poll to vote.

We already have great topics, great homebrewers and great drinkers. We've already kicked off our own SMASH Barleywine experiment to compare different malts. Heck, there are even pro brewers on the site who might be willing to offer advice or tell us about their journey to the pro-level. We're halfway there.

Use the poll...yeah...that's right.

 

[bum732]

You forgot an option.

 

[Indytruks1381]

I'm on the fence. I think some of the main benefits of a homebrew club are getting feedback on your beer, knowing how to improve any off-flavors and learning brewing tricks and tips from each other. I am not sure if there are many benefits to an online homebrew club that can't already be accomplished in the forum. Sell me on it, why should we join?

 

[user 306809]

Not sure how to answer poll - I am a member of a local club so do not believe they are for wankers. However, I am not desperate to join your agoraphobic endeavor due to ample hobby-related human interaction.

I think you should form one, for the greater good.

 

[nanobrew1]

I like the idea. But one thing that makes brewing network a good online club is the community interaction. Not only are they able to communicate online, but there are pod cast. Would we be looking at doing something like this? I know some people on here who are home brewers do podcast and blogs (rcubed and dontdrinkbeer ). I think that aspect would be fun. I would love to help out with that, though my role would be limited to the side kick with no useful information.

There already seems to be a growing amount of BIF involving homebrew, which I think is vital, along with turning them into competitions. And I am saying this as someone who does not compete in HB competitions. I feel competitions can build community, increase knowledge, and create aspiration to try new things.

Overall I like this idea. What would the cost look like?

 

[Beerontwowheels]

What would the cost look like?

We are not even close to answering such a question. Costs, if anything, would likely be minimal.

I agree that local homebrew clubs benefit from easier access to reviews/feedback, monthly competitions, but some of that can be replicated via an online community.

We can probably run quarterly competitions. We can do more brewing experiments like we did with the SMASH barleywine example.

I don't have all the answers or even know if this is really a good idea. I'm not part of any clubs but you guys all seem like knowledgeable folks who obviously enjoy the hobby.

I think what sparked this idea was me filling out the NHC paperwork a few weeks ago and leaving the club section empty. I'd be proud to list Talk Beer as my club...

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Not sure how to answer poll - I am a member of a local club so do not believe they are for wankers. However, I am not desperate to join your agoraphobic endeavor due to ample hobby-related human interaction.

I think you should form one, for the greater good.

I was trying to insert some levity. It's really a simple yes or no question. 'Yes, I'd be interested in forming the best damn online homebrewing community' -or- 'No'

 

[quirkzoo1]

I might be interested, I am in the facebook group for a local club but haven't actually been to a meeting nor joined in any sort of official capacity. I haven't submitted to any comps yet but it is definitely something I am interested in doing in the near future. As has been stated above though, I think the feedback aspect is going to be the toughest as I don't want to be shipping out a bunch of beer everytime I want feedback.

 

[fletch1]

I would love to get involved in this. I just started brewing some sour beers, and input would be much appreciated when theyn are ready to go.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Looks like there is moderate interest in forming a Talk Beer Homebrew club. I'm going to do some research on next steps. If we do follow through with this idea, we could have some simple application process to request membership in the club.

In the mean time, I started thinking about how we could maybe run a homebrew competition. Let's say, hypothetically, we had an IPA contest that took place in June. Anyone club member who is interested could brew up the beer and submit it for competition. We could handle judging by way of blind judging.

I see it working similar to how we are handling the SMASH Barleywine exchange. Everyone participating in the contest ships their beer and an extra label to a hub, one central person. That hub re-packages the beers and ships them (using the supplied labels) out. I think in this instance, no one would judge their own beer. You would only judge beers from other entrants.

Example - 6 Participants (named A, B, C, D, E, F & G)

All 6 participants ship their beers to the hub (this could be a participant or a club member who is not participating. The hub organizes the submissions and mails out 5 beers to each participant (excepting each contestant's submission).

Each participant receives the 5 beers and rates/judges them according to style using a BJCP style score sheet. Those reviews/results are recorded and sent (electronically) to the competition organizer who compiles the scores and determines the overall ranking. Once ranking/awards are doled out, the score sheets can be sent to brewers so they can see feedback.

Each competition could have it's own thread if we want or things could be handled behind the scene in private messages.

Outside of the participants, it would be nice (but not mandatory) to have a non-participant as organizer for each competition. This would help keep things objective. The hub would be responsible for assigning some type of identifier to each participant's bottles (number). The identifier/participant relationship would not be shared so that when judging it is not known who's beer is whose.

This is just some early brainstorming on how this could work. All up for discussion. We may decide as an online club that homebrew competitions are not worth the cost giving shipping costs, etc. If that's true, then we need to decide what other benefits lend themselves to an online homebrew club.

Thoughts, comments, questions? I don't want to drone on and on to the point this becomes anymore TL;DR than it already is...

 

[dblab331]

Is there time to get this rolling and get in on pouring at Club Night at the AHA conference in June?!

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Is there time to get this rolling and get in on pouring at Club Night at the AHA conference in June?!

I haven't gotten that far. We still need to decide if we want to be AHA registered and then see how involved that is and how much costs are (is there a cost? checking the website now).

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Looks like registering a homebrew club is free. I'll talk with Gene to iron out a few questions I have.

 

[Gene1]

This all sounds awesome so far.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

While we have absolutely zero official members at this point, The Talk Beer Homebrew Club has been registered with the AHA. The AHA site says it can take up to two weeks for their database to reflect the new club, so for now we will get moving on the member application process.

Step 1) Private message me your personal email account so I can send you the application form
Step 2) Fill out form and return to me
Step 3) GZF, HAHB (Give Zero Fuxx...You know the rest...)

Cheers guys!

 

[BadJustin]

Pm in bound and thanks for doing this man!

 

[Snarf1]

While we have absolutely zero official members at this point, The Talk Beer Homebrew Club has been registered with the AHA. The AHA site says it can take up to two weeks for their database to reflect the new club, so for now we will get moving on the member application process.

Step 1) Private message me your personal email account so I can send you the application form
Step 2) Fill out form and return to me
Step 3) GZF, HAHB (Give Zero Fuxx...You know the rest...)

Cheers guys!

PM sent. Now we can be the nerdiest nerds on a nerdy website. How sweet it is.

 

[BadJustin]

PM sent. Now we can be the nerdiest nerds on a nerdy website. How sweet it is.

Lol! I told my wife she said "great, you're a bigger tool than I thought you were 5 minutes ago."

 

[Indytruks1381]

Looks like there is moderate interest in forming a Talk Beer Homebrew club. I'm going to do some research on next steps. If we do follow through with this idea, we could have some simple application process to request membership in the club.

In the mean time, I started thinking about how we could maybe run a homebrew competition. Let's say, hypothetically, we had an IPA contest that took place in June. Anyone club member who is interested could brew up the beer and submit it for competition. We could handle judging by way of blind judging.

I see it working similar to how we are handling the SMASH Barleywine exchange. Everyone participating in the contest ships their beer and an extra label to a hub, one central person. That hub re-packages the beers and ships them (using the supplied labels) out. I think in this instance, no one would judge their own beer. You would only judge beers from other entrants.

Example - 6 Participants (named A, B, C, D, E, F & G)

All 6 participants ship their beers to the hub (this could be a participant or a club member who is not participating. The hub organizes the submissions and mails out 5 beers to each participant (excepting each contestant's submission).

Each participant receives the 5 beers and rates/judges them according to style using a BJCP style score sheet. Those reviews/results are recorded and sent (electronically) to the competition organizer who compiles the scores and determines the overall ranking. Once ranking/awards are doled out, the score sheets can be sent to brewers so they can see feedback.

Each competition could have it's own thread if we want or things could be handled behind the scene in private messages.

Outside of the participants, it would be nice (but not mandatory) to have a non-participant as organizer for each competition. This would help keep things objective. The hub would be responsible for assigning some type of identifier to each participant's bottles (number). The identifier/participant relationship would not be shared so that when judging it is not known who's beer is whose.

This is just some early brainstorming on how this could work. All up for discussion. We may decide as an online club that homebrew competitions are not worth the cost giving shipping costs, etc. If that's true, then we need to decide what other benefits lend themselves to an online homebrew club.

Thoughts, comments, questions? I don't want to drone on and on to the point this becomes anymore TL;DR than it already is...

Would the HUB move each competition as the person running doesn't pay any shipping. I know the time to organize is equivalent.
Are also limiting entrants? What if we get 20 bottles, are we shipping each participant 20 bottles?

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Would the HUB move each competition as the person running doesn't pay any shipping. I know the time to organize is equivalent.
Are also limiting entrants? What if we get 20 bottles, are we shipping each participant 20 bottles?

I imagine the hub will rotate. And yes, one of the benefits of being the hub is avoiding shipping costs (at the cost of time spent organizing and dropping off boxes). During the barleywine exchange, we discussed the benefit of the hub residing within the mid-west as that could help those on opposite coasts within shipping costs. I don't know that living in the mid-west should be a hub pre-requisite, but that's something we need to have a discussion about after this first competition. Any logistics experts on the boards?

I made a post yesterday about how we need to think about handling competitions in the future as the club grows. I ended up deleting it because it was in the poll thread for our first competition and I didn't want to derail the thread.

We certainly need to think of how we will handle competitions as membership grows and more people are entering the competitions. The model we have in place for the first competition is likely ok for a few months, but like you implied above, I'm not interested in shipping nearly a case of homebrew to a hub and then paying for another case of homebrew to be shipped back to me that needs to be judged timely.

Definitely requires some thought and conversation amongst members. I'm all ears.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Just something I've been pondering (while avoiding IT Planning for the next 5 fiscal years)...

While I know shipping isn't cheap, I think one of the plusses for how we are beginning this competition cycle is that the money you spend on shipping isn't just to 'enter' a beer. At least for now, the cost for every competition you enter comes not only with the standard benefit of getting feedback on your beer, but also the opportunity to try other homebrews in the same style. That 'opportunity' of course has it's cost, in that you are then obligated to provide a thorough review (BJCP style, no less).

Drinking other peoples homebrew is awesome in and of itself, but for those of us who are not already BJCP certified, I think we will benefit from reviewing other peoples homebrew. Once everyone's reviews are in to the competition organizer, we can make them available to everyone so that you can see how your review stood up against others for the same homebrew.

It would be awesome if one or two of the members who are BJCP certified could maybe walk the rest of us through how to judge using the BJCP score sheets. If anyone wants to take the initiative to start a thread about this subject, that would make my freaking day.



TL;DR - Your shipping costs are more than just an entry fee. Try not to think of it that way.



In the event that what I've described is exactly like a standard brick and mortar style local homebrew 'club-only' competition, well **** me. I've never competed in a local 'club only' competition, so I don't know if everyone who submits beers gets to drink every entry and also judge every entry. I'd like to think we are ****ing unique, and I blame that on my mother.

 

[bum732]

Yeah, i can do that. Just let me know what you need to be explained. Because, honestly, the score sheets that judges fill out are pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Yeah, i can do that. Just let me know what you need to be explained. Because, honestly, the score sheets that judges fill out are pretty self-explanatory.

Just a general overview. I agree it might seem pretty obvious, but I think it's important that everyone at least look over the form and get any questions out of the way before they start judging beers.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

bum732

This is the scoresheet I received from the Philly juding center for this year's NHC. Doesn't look the same as the one you showed me from last year.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_checklist.pdf

 

[ncaudle]

bum732

This is the scoresheet I received from the Philly juding center for this year's NHC. Doesn't look the same as the one you showed my from last year.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_checklist.pdf

NHC uses different score sheets than normal BJCP comps as it's kind of understood that NHC entries have already gone through local BJCP comps...

 

[Beerontwowheels]

NHC uses different score sheets than normal BJCP comps as it's kind of understood that NHC entries have already gone through local BJCP comps...

Well, you learn something new everyday. I never entered my beer locally, just decided I would start at the national level. What a pompous prick I am.

 

[bum732]

Actually, the scoresheets you received a newer version that came out a few years ago. The idea with these new scoresheets was to speed up the process of filling them out. That is why they are constructed like a bubble fill-in sheet in contrast to the traditional "essay" style. Both are sufficient, and generally meet the same goals.

 

[fletch1]

I imagine the hub will rotate. And yes, one of the benefits of being the hub is avoiding shipping costs (at the cost of time spent organizing and dropping off boxes). During the barleywine exchange, we discussed the benefit of the hub residing within the mid-west as that could help those on opposite coasts within shipping costs. I don't know that living in the mid-west should be a hub pre-requisite, but that's something we need to have a discussion about after this first competition. Any logistics experts on the boards?

I made a post yesterday about how we need to think about handling competitions in the future as the club grows. I ended up deleting it because it was in the poll thread for our first competition and I didn't want to derail the thread.

We certainly need to think of how we will handle competitions as membership grows and more people are entering the competitions. The model we have in place for the first competition is likely ok for a few months, but like you implied above, I'm not interested in shipping nearly a case of homebrew to a hub and then paying for another case of homebrew to be shipped back to me that needs to be judged timely.

Definitely requires some thought and conversation amongst members. I'm all ears.

What if, depending on how many people enter, we split up into smaller groups (divided by region, skill level, fruited
beer/unfruited beer, etc). So if 18 people enter, we divide up into 3 groups of 6, and then had a second round after that for the finalists?

 

[Beerontwowheels]

What if, depending on how many people enter, we split up into smaller groups (divided by region, skill level, fruited beer/unfruited beer, etc). So if 18 people enter, we divide up into 3 groups of 6,

That's something to consider as we grow. I like the idea of limiting our entry bottles to 6 no matter the size of the group involved. Just seems like enough beer to be shipping out for a contest. Any more than that and it may be too cumbersome.

and then had a second round after that for the finalists?

Adding a second round will increase shipping costs though, right? A lot of people will want to avoid that at all costs, if possible. Wheels are turning though and I appreciate that!

Going to grab some lunch...more to come though.

 

[Snarf1]

I'm not the least bit interested in judging these comps according to BJCP guidelines. I think the scoresheets are handy tools for recording our feedback, but I think the BJCP style guidelines are ****.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

I'm not the least bit interested in judging these comps according to BJCP guidelines. I think the scoresheets are handy tools for recording our feedback, but I think the BJCP style guidelines are ****.

Certainly up for discussion. How would you want to go about scoring?

 

[Snarf1]

Certainly up for discussion. How would you want to go about scoring?

Sorry, I prefer to keep my criticism non-constructive.

With saisons, or even pale ale, the BJCP guidelines don't accurately reflect the modern interpetation of the style, but I think we all know what we individually expect from them.

I'm not sure scoring is important here. No prizes ,so it's just for bragging rights? I'm more interested in getting feedback than getting scored.

Are we planning on each person tasting all the beers at the same time? If so then I think rating each 1 through n would work. If not, I have no idea.

 

[ncaudle]

the BJCP style guidelines are ****.

I had to unlike this to like it again.

 

[stakem1]

I think whomever wins the competition should get a gold star beside their name that everyone on the board can see. Then people will ask WTF is that?!? And then they will find out that the only way they too can get a gold star is to participate.

Seriously that might actually be a good idea... or you can laugh at me for being distracted by shiny things.

I am not BJCP certified but i have helped judge sanctioned homebrew comps. I dont like the idea of drinking XX beers side by side as the crazy outlier or one that is most unique always gets the attention/remebrance factor. I think feedback is great and should be required. I just dont know how to offer constructive feedback without adhereing to BJCP or some other structure that we all follow and try to be fair/consistent about.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Sorry, I prefer to keep my criticism non-constructive.

With saisons, or even pale ale, the BJCP guidelines don't accurately reflect the modern interpetation of the style, but I think we all know what we individually expect from them.

I'm not sure scoring is important here. No prizes ,so it's just for bragging rights? I'm more interested in getting feedback than getting scored.

Are we planning on each person tasting all the beers at the same time? If so then I think rating each 1 through n would work. If not, I have no idea.

So you would rather we rate to taste than to 'style'. I'm cool with that, seems like a few others might be too.

I personally would still want to rate on the aroma (/12),appearance (/3), Flavor (/20), mouthfeel (/5) and overall (/10)and using similar type scores for each category.

There may be prize support. I've got a few in mind that I think would be cool, but they are just in the early stages. Still working out details.

 

[TheGordianKnot]

I think whomever wins the competition should get a gold star beside their name that everyone on the board can see. Then people will ask WTF is that?!? And then they will find out that the only way they too can get a gold star is to participate.

^Awesome idea...

Also, since a lot of us aren't BJCP judges and a few are, I think it'd be cool if we could try to sync up a time to taste each beer and all use Google Hangout (or something similar?).. I'd like to write my own feedback, then listen to each other as each beer is discussed in real time

 

[Beerontwowheels]

I think whomever wins the competition should get a gold star beside their name that everyone on the board can see. Then people will ask WTF is that?!? And then they will find out that the only way they too can get a gold star is to participate.

Seriously that might actually be a good idea... or you can laugh at me for being distracted by shiny things.

That thought crossed my mind. I think that could be something we ask Gene about. I'm sure it's not a lot of coding, but it may not fit with his vision for the site.

 

[stakem1]

I personally would still want to rate on the aroma (/12),appearance (/3), Flavor (/20), mouthfeel (/5) and overall (/10)and using similar type scores for each category.

I cannot stress enough how much I dislike this format. I hate the concept of rating any attribute on a scale with more precision than 1-5.

I honest to god do not want to over-think this too much. Cant someone come up with something that is easy/basic with some hidden algebra/snap math behind the scenes? I understand that flavor and aroma should weigh in more than look/feel but seriously what defines the precision between a 23 or a 24 on the way it makes your pee smell the next day?

I like the oldschool BA approach with 1-5 only.
1 it sucks, dislike, drainpour, no more, yucky
2 it has flaws but not enough to hate it
3 its average, could take it or leave it
4 this is good stuff, id bang it again
5 its awesome, nearly the best you ever had

I realize this might be too generic but at least its not over-complicating things and the way of scoring will be easy. If 1-5 is utilized, you could have a quick excell spreadsheet or something with a formula that gives smell/taste a heavier weighted average than the rest.

Woah, too much?

 

[Five28 hz]

In all seriousnesses, I don't have a dog in the fight as to how the beers are judged. I just want some impartial feedback, because my friends saying, This is great! does nothing for me.

 

[fletch1]

stakem, were you refering to a weighted judging system? Rate every beer on a scale (1-5), and then multiply that by a weighted number to factor I importance of each catagory?
Aroma-(1-5)x4.8
Appearance-(1-5)x1.2
Flavor-(1-5)x8
Mouthfeel-(1-5)x2
Overall-(1-5)x4
add all of the numbers up, and it gives you a score based on 100 pts. (or we could do 50pts to keep with the norms)

So it Stakem sent me a homebrew, and I rated it(all 4s, just as an example):
Aroma-4 (19.8pts)
Appearance- 4 (4.8)
Flavor- 4 (32)
Mouthfeel- 4(8)
Overall-4(16)

Score=80.6/100

I kind of like this way better