stupac2
Well-Known Member
Here's the BA thread I made: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-importance-of-community.120258/
Here's the text for the inevitable deletion:
When I joined BA, I didn’t know what I was getting myself into. I just wanted to talk about beer with other passionate people, and try some of those beers I’d heard so much about from my the top 100 and on the forums. I didn’t anticipate becoming part of an incredible community.
When I was still fairly new I posted in a thread asking for advice on beer in the area around Stanford, and another alumnus who had never spoken to me before BMed and invited me to a tasting his friend was hosting. I was excited and nervous, and I felt so out of my depth. But everyone there was very friendly, and they all brought beers from my wants that, at the time, seemed far out of my reach. (Lou Pepe Gueuze? Cherry Adam from the Wood? Amazing!) That first invitation blossomed into friendships that have lasted years.
Everyone has stories like this. I could certainly rattle off a dozen more, though I’ll spare you. So many friendships have been formed over a glass of beer, and thanks to Beer Advocate, that no one could count them. When I reflect on my time on BA, it’s very clear to me that the value, all of the value, is in the community.
And lately that community has been unraveling.
At this point few people need to be told of the mass bannings happening lately (though if you are unaware, see here and here.
I have no desire to dramatize this, but when users who have contributed huge amounts of content are banned, the community suffers. When users who provided valuable services are banned, the community suffers. When users whose random acts of kindness have touched others are banned, the community suffers. When users whose posts are full of levity and humor are banned, the community suffers.
The worst part is that it’s all avoidable. Many of those banned did deserve it, but it’s a well understood psychological principle that people adjust to their environment, and an environment where decisions are made arbitrarily and capriciously, where interaction between administrators and users runs the gamut from “standoffish” to “hostile”, where rules change then change back and violations are left unexplained and violating posts are taken down so no one can see the problems, where an average user with no malevolent intent has to second-guess everything he posts for fear of running afoul of the inscrutable rules, is an environment that will breed hostility. It’s hardly surprising that in such an environment users become frustrated and start lashing out, thus “earning” bans. But when you’re set up to fail, can you really be blamed for failing?
It doesn’t need to be this way. It’s perfectly possible to have a forum that’s in control, on topic, free from trolling (as far as is possible online), and otherwise healthy without this level of hostility between users and moderators. I think anyone who’s been around a few forums for a long time can think of several. But it requires a few things:
1) Accept criticism, even if it’s worded harshly. Trolls can be right, too.
2) For everyday rule violations, alter the post to remove the offending content and make a clear note indicating its removal and the reason for it.
3) Delete posts only when the content is completely unsalvageable and the user is a repeat violator.
4) Ban users only after repeated, flagrant violations.
5) Don’t allow users to abuse the report function to carry out grudges.
I started with the story above because both of those users have been banned in their BA careers, one of them permanently. They’re both really good guys who contributed a ton to the site, but like to have fun sometimes. The community is worse without them, and the others like them.
Cheers,
Stuart
I have to leave work in a couple minutes, let me know what happens with it. Screenshots if it gets fun.
Here's the text for the inevitable deletion:
When I joined BA, I didn’t know what I was getting myself into. I just wanted to talk about beer with other passionate people, and try some of those beers I’d heard so much about from my the top 100 and on the forums. I didn’t anticipate becoming part of an incredible community.
When I was still fairly new I posted in a thread asking for advice on beer in the area around Stanford, and another alumnus who had never spoken to me before BMed and invited me to a tasting his friend was hosting. I was excited and nervous, and I felt so out of my depth. But everyone there was very friendly, and they all brought beers from my wants that, at the time, seemed far out of my reach. (Lou Pepe Gueuze? Cherry Adam from the Wood? Amazing!) That first invitation blossomed into friendships that have lasted years.
Everyone has stories like this. I could certainly rattle off a dozen more, though I’ll spare you. So many friendships have been formed over a glass of beer, and thanks to Beer Advocate, that no one could count them. When I reflect on my time on BA, it’s very clear to me that the value, all of the value, is in the community.
And lately that community has been unraveling.
At this point few people need to be told of the mass bannings happening lately (though if you are unaware, see here and here.
I have no desire to dramatize this, but when users who have contributed huge amounts of content are banned, the community suffers. When users who provided valuable services are banned, the community suffers. When users whose random acts of kindness have touched others are banned, the community suffers. When users whose posts are full of levity and humor are banned, the community suffers.
The worst part is that it’s all avoidable. Many of those banned did deserve it, but it’s a well understood psychological principle that people adjust to their environment, and an environment where decisions are made arbitrarily and capriciously, where interaction between administrators and users runs the gamut from “standoffish” to “hostile”, where rules change then change back and violations are left unexplained and violating posts are taken down so no one can see the problems, where an average user with no malevolent intent has to second-guess everything he posts for fear of running afoul of the inscrutable rules, is an environment that will breed hostility. It’s hardly surprising that in such an environment users become frustrated and start lashing out, thus “earning” bans. But when you’re set up to fail, can you really be blamed for failing?
It doesn’t need to be this way. It’s perfectly possible to have a forum that’s in control, on topic, free from trolling (as far as is possible online), and otherwise healthy without this level of hostility between users and moderators. I think anyone who’s been around a few forums for a long time can think of several. But it requires a few things:
1) Accept criticism, even if it’s worded harshly. Trolls can be right, too.
2) For everyday rule violations, alter the post to remove the offending content and make a clear note indicating its removal and the reason for it.
3) Delete posts only when the content is completely unsalvageable and the user is a repeat violator.
4) Ban users only after repeated, flagrant violations.
5) Don’t allow users to abuse the report function to carry out grudges.
I started with the story above because both of those users have been banned in their BA careers, one of them permanently. They’re both really good guys who contributed a ton to the site, but like to have fun sometimes. The community is worse without them, and the others like them.
Cheers,
Stuart
I have to leave work in a couple minutes, let me know what happens with it. Screenshots if it gets fun.
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