2014 Doggie Claws (problems?)

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waltersrj

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I've been reading all over facebook about some serious issues with this years batch. I am hoping to get some more opinions from locals or anyone who has swung by to try it. People are saying it appears to be completely undrinkable because it may not have finished fermentation thus leaving some odd by products while also being overly sweet and uncarbonated.

Is this true in all cases or is it another extreme bottle variation? It saddens me because its one of my favorite beers for winter, especially at the full case price point.

Cheers,
Ryan
 
I tried it last night. It's the worst HotD beer to date.
That's a bummer to hear. I don't understand why Alan still bottles and sells beers that just make HotD look bad. At least the under carbonated barrel aged ones still taste good. This is too bad.
 
I'm the one that started the thread on Facebook, so you obviously know my opinion. I've also posted on BA (under the same handle). The only thing I'll say is that I opened my fourth bottle from my case tonight and perhaps it was slightly more drinkable. But after two ounces, I decided there were far too many other things in the fridge to drink that I would enjoy far more and still ended up drain pouring the bottle.

I know not everyone agreed or appreciated me starting that thread on FB. But for some reason this releases really struck a sore note with me. I really like Doggie Claws and have bought a case each year since 2009 or 2010. But this year, the beer is so obviously flawed, I really feel Alan screwed over his fans by releasing it. He also screwed over his retail accounts, which will now have to deal with people returning bottles. And longer term, just reinforced for some people that HotD has terrible quality control issues. A lose-lose situation all the way around.

But what every. I've opened four bottles. I'm putting six aside to cellar for my ongoing 7-year vertical, Kevin is buying a couple, and the rest are going back to the brewery. At least we've learned that if we don't like HotD beers, we can return them. That may be the best thing that came out of this whole affair.
 
Was there an official announcement that Fred batch 92 is flat? Because I've tried a few bottles and they all have been dead.
 
2014 Cherry Adam announced, priced at "it's still" levels, but with no explicit announcement.

Sigh.

2008 Cherry Adam changed my world, and 2009 was one of my favorite beers for a year (and still my favorite vintage in its prime). Really sad to see how far it has fallen.
 
2014 Cherry Adam announced, priced at "it's still" levels, but with no explicit announcement.

Sigh.

2008 Cherry Adam changed my world, and 2009 was one of my favorite beers for a year (and still my favorite vintage in its prime). Really sad to see how far it has fallen.

I completely agree with you here. When was the last really well carbonated BA HotD? My mind shoots back to 2013 BFftW. It seems to me that there should be some sort of way to figure out the carbonation issues. Most of these beers are pretty high abv and sit in barrels for quite some time but I mean frickin Black Tuesday is carbonated and its a monster yeast destroying ~20% abv beer.

Let's all hope that this beer is at least slightly carbonated. I'll still buy some but not a case.
 
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I've learned my lesson-no more buying cases without first trying a bottle. And with no case discount, there's really no incentive to run out and buy a case.
 
I completely agree with you here. When was the last really well carbonated BA HotD? My mind shoots back to 2013 BFftW. It seems to me that there should be some sort of way to figure out the carbonation issues. Most of these beers are pretty high abv and sit in barrels for quite some time but I mean frickin Black Tuesday is carbonated and its a monster yeast destroying ~20% abv beer.

Let's all hope that this beer is at least slightly carbonated. I'll still buy some but not a case.
I'm pretty sure Black Tuesday is force carbed. Your point stands, though.
 
I've enjoyed every vintage of Cherry Adam I've had (all from 2010 onward I think), some carbonated, some still. $10 for still Cherry Adam is fine by me, but only a few bottles.
 
I completely agree with you here. When was the last really well carbonated BA HotD? My mind shoots back to 2013 BFftW. It seems to me that there should be some sort of way to figure out the carbonation issues. Most of these beers are pretty high abv and sit in barrels for quite some time but I mean frickin Black Tuesday is carbonated and its a monster yeast destroying ~20% abv beer.

Let's all hope that this beer is at least slightly carbonated. I'll still buy some but not a case.

Every bottle of 2013 Matt that I've had (only 4, granted) ranged from adequately to well carbed.
 
Force carbing is when you put more yeast in the bottle, right?

Force carbing is when the beer is pressurized in the brite tank through the direct dissolution of gaseous CO2, as opposed to bottle-conditioning with additional yeast to produce natural carbonation in each bottle.

Personally I don't see the issue or stigma with force-carbing, especially when it can produce more consistent results. Some brewers (Alan Sprints and Tomme Arthur in particular) seem to be particularly adverse to the idea though, despite consistently pumping out flat bottle-conditioned beers.
 
Force carbing is when the beer is pressurized in the brite tank through the direct dissolution of gaseous CO2, as opposed to bottle-conditioning with additional yeast to produce natural carbonation in each bottle.

Personally I don't see the issue or stigma with force-carbing, especially when it can produce more consistent results. Some brewers (Alan Sprints and Tomme Arthur in particular) seem to be particularly adverse to the idea though, despite consistently pumping out flat bottle-conditioned beers.

Throw Dan Carey in that group, at least for certain beers. He's building and entire warehouse so New Glarus can bottle condition all bottles of Spotted Cow. Srs.
 
Throw Dan Carey in that group, at least for certain beers. He's building and entire warehouse so New Glarus can bottle condition all bottles of Spotted Cow. Srs.

lX4vE9b.gif
 
I completely agree with you here. When was the last really well carbonated BA HotD? My mind shoots back to 2013 BFftW.

2013 BFftW was flat. 2012 was the carbonated year. In 2013, Matt and Otto were carbonated, although on the low side. FftW has been consistently carbonated, as far as I know.
 

He's definitely reaching those levels of tone-deafness. From the HotD page:

Very surprising to me that even though Cherry Adam has been available to drink in the tasting room for almost a week, no one has talked about how it tastes. Is carbonation really more important than taste?

Too bad people will let him get away with that kind of straw man. Carbonation hugely impacts taste. And good to have confirmation that it is flat. The sales announcement didn't explicitly say it.

/Do not want
 
Perhaps he is intentionally under-carbing the beers to distract us from the taste. I know the bottled version of 14 DC uncarbed or force carbed tasted terrible. But people immediately assume I just don't know how to enjoy flat beer and seem to look past the fact that I did comment on the beer's taste. Also funny that without carbonation, the aroma is negatively impacted. But perhaps we shouldn't be smelling his beer. In fact, perhaps we shouldn't be fussing about his beer at all.

Note: I haven't tried the new CAftW. So no comments on that beer.
 
Too bad people will let him get away with that kind of straw man. Carbonation hugely impacts taste. And good to have confirmation that it is flat. The sales announcement didn't explicitly say it.

/Do not want
Just for shits and giggles I'm going to bring lukewarm bottles to my next share, and when somebody complains, I'll ask them, "is temperature really more important than taste?"
 
One of my friends went down and tried it with Alan last weekend and it is carbonated enough to have a thin ring visible much like the latest version of Matt. IMO, that is enough carbonation for me. I'll drink all the bottles you guys leave behind.
 
One of my friends went down and tried it with Alan last weekend and it is carbonated enough to have a thin ring visible much like the latest version of Matt. IMO, that is enough carbonation for me. I'll drink all the bottles you guys leave behind.

There is definitely some carb in 2015 Cherry Adam, but about as close as you can get to zero. I was actually surprised that the bottle stated there is NO carbonation

He's definitely reaching those levels of tone-deafness. From the HotD page:

Very surprising to me that even though Cherry Adam has been available to drink in the tasting room for almost a week, no one has talked about how it tastes. Is carbonation really more important than taste?

Too bad people will let him get away with that kind of straw man. Carbonation hugely impacts taste. And good to have confirmation that it is flat. The sales announcement didn't explicitly say it.

/Do not want

Quite an assumption he's making there considering I was in his tasting room TALKING ABOUT HOW IT TASTES last weekend (good things by the way). I happen to really enjoy this batch. Not sure if I enjoy the defensive Facebook posts though.
 
When we were able to in PA (up to 5 years ago) I would buy cases of Adam and Fred whenever I could afford it. Fred from the wood and cherry adam from the wood were the first ~ $300 cases of beer that I actually considered buying but never ended up pullin the trigger (2009 caftw release) and in hindsight regret it. HOTD stuff was a staple in my cellar and I really enjoyed the batch variation (the good kind of variation like flavor and aroma, not carbonation.) Though, lack of carbonation hardly bothers me compared to over-carbonation.

I can sympathize with Alan to an extent if he admits the beer didnt turn out as intended carbonation-wise. I appreciate him admitting the fault and pricing it accordingly and accepting returns/refunds. But to pull a Tomme and even remotely suggest the consumers are ignorant because they talk about the flawed aspects instead of the good is asinine unless they were notified beforehand.

Having said all that, im referring to the barrel aged beers where the alcohol is elevated and yeast can die out or stall due to alcohol toxicity and pure duration of inactivity while resting in spirit barrels. For beers like doggie claws where there is no extended barrel aging, I find the issues tough to accept. For a beer like blue dot to also have lack of carbonation is doubly frustrating.
 
When we were able to in PA (up to 5 years ago) I would buy cases of Adam and Fred whenever I could afford it. Fred from the wood and cherry adam from the wood were the first ~ $300 cases of beer that I actually considered buying but never ended up pullin the trigger (2009 caftw release) and in hindsight regret it. HOTD stuff was a staple in my cellar and I really enjoyed the batch variation (the good kind of variation like flavor and aroma, not carbonation.) Though, lack of carbonation hardly bothers me compared to over-carbonation.

I can sympathize with Alan to an extent if he admits the beer didnt turn out as intended carbonation-wise. I appreciate him admitting the fault and pricing it accordingly and accepting returns/refunds. But to pull a Tomme and even remotely suggest the consumers are ignorant because they talk about the flawed aspects instead of the good is asinine unless they were notified beforehand.

Having said all that, im referring to the barrel aged beers where the alcohol is elevated and yeast can die out or stall due to alcohol toxicity and pure duration of inactivity while resting in spirit barrels. For beers like doggie claws where there is no extended barrel aging, I find the issues tough to accept. For a beer like blue dot to also have lack of carbonation is doubly frustrating.
There has even been flat Ruth. How the **** do you screw up carbonation on a ~5% pale? I gave up on HotD after Otto.
 
There has even been flat Ruth. How the **** do you screw up carbonation on a ~5% pale? I gave up on HotD after Otto.

not to mention flat bottles of blue dot, and bottles with 3 inches of sediment at the bottom. I suppose I'm just pouring the beer wrong ;)

if shmeal didn't bring his soda streamed bottle of '14 aftw to a share I would have never purchased another packed hotd product. =(
 
Finally received my case of Cherry Adam and to all of the haters, this years is the best since fresh 09'. Absolutely stunning and carbonated enough to give it a great body.

Alan knocked it out of the ****ing park. Cherries, a light cherry tartness with chocolate like a cordial, leather, tobacco, light peat, velvet like smooth body.
 
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