Adam Vavrick - Siebel Teacher/Consultant/Judge/Ex-Binny's/etc

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vav1

because the trump thread deserves a pulitzer
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Hi,

I'm the former Beer Manager at the flagship Binny's in Chicago, where i did stuff like help create the nonsense that is now Black Friday, started a proper beer cellaring program, etc. I've also consulted for various restaurants and bars including Rick Bayless's newest, Xoco Bistro in the Wicker Park neighborhood of Chicago. I've spoken on panels at CiderCon and the Craft Brewers Conference and am a member of the Brewers Association. Aside from all that, i'm a beer judge for both the World Beer Awards and the Beverage Testing Institute and teach New World Beer Styles for the Siebel Institute Of Technology.

Breweries looking for advice on bringing product to market/marketing suggestions? Beer fans wondering how the three tier system works? What my favorite Coil record is?

Ask me anything!
 
Hi,

I'm the former Beer Manager at the flagship Binny's in Chicago, where i did stuff like help create the nonsense that is now Black Friday, started a proper beer cellaring program, etc. I've also consulted for various restaurants and bars including Rick Bayless's newest, Xoco Bistro in the Wicker Park neighborhood of Chicago. I've spoken on panels at CiderCon and the Craft Brewers Conference and am a member of the Brewers Association. Aside from all that, i'm a beer judge for both the World Beer Awards and the Beverage Testing Institute and teach New World Beer Styles for the Siebel Institute Of Technology.

Breweries looking for advice on bringing product to market/marketing suggestions? Beer fans wondering how the three tier system works? What my favorite Coil record is?

Ask me anything!
do u have prop
 
How do feel about the cluster**** releases that you've taken responsibility for?

Also, what's your favorite Coil record?
 
do u have prop

I don't, i never bought one.

Do you have gumballhead or zombie dust

Not currently. I had a Gumball at Big Star the other day though. Also Louisville Beer Store just tweeted they have Gumball.

Combos or Pringles, choose wisely.

Pringles, Sour Cream & Onion.

How do feel about the cluster**** releases that you've taken responsibility for?

Also, what's your favorite Coil record?

I feel overall pretty good about it with a few caveats.

Black Friday was myself at Eric Hobbs (who worked for Goose as the key account manager before leaving to start Penrose) trying to figure out how the **** we were going to execute the $42.99 price point of Rare. Remember, in 2010, the most expensive beer on the shelf in Chicago was high end ridiculous (Sink the Bismarck/Tactical Nuclear Penguin,) highly allocated sold as specialty spirit (Utopia) or sold rather quickly (Cantillon Iris etc....and yes, they used to be shelf beers.)

When i was offered that much Rare, i was thinking long game. I figured if it didnt all sell, cellaring was going to be very popular in a few years simply due to how many BA imperial stouts and such were starting to trickle through, and with the extraordinarily slim chance of infection due to Goose's amazingly solid barrel program, it'd hold. It also offered me the chance to buy the most amount of BCS and related for an account ever, which i kinda liked as a notch on the belt and also would hold well if it didn't sell. Also recall, before this, BCS was basically a once a year brew but you could find it all year at various slower locations. That said, to their credit, Binny's gave me enough rope to hang myself with this one. I actually called Eric i think on Thanksgiving kinda freaking out over the sheer amount of money i'd spent on that beer wondering if anyone would actually show up. I went to some weird vegetarian Thanksgiving that night, introduced everyone at the table to Monk's Cafe, and barely slept that night.

I was shocked to see that line when i got there in the morning. Then the media showed up. Then we sold out in two hours. I was just shocked. It was crazy.

Black Friday since has been fun, but i'll tell you right now 2014 felt different and i'm pretty happy i dont have to do it this year. 970 people in line just felt different than the 600 or so they year before. The setup felt different. The Goose people felt different. I guess it's like seeing a concert in some club and then watching the band get big enough to play an arena. I had no idea the concept was going National until i saw the social media stuff...not that i was surprised, but that was kinda strange.

I think it kinda set the bar for beer releases, though. And i was able to translate that to other breweries i get behind, like the Perennial Abraxas release we did.

But i also feel like i'm a victim of my own success with that. Anyone who drank CBS at the Lincoln Park Bar knows that. It was the most quiet and chill CBS release ever, precisely because everyone THOUGHT it would be a ********, so no one showed up.

As for favorite Coil record, i'm gunna have to go with Gold Is The Metal With The Broadest Shoulders. It's not really a proper album per se, it's bits and bobs/outtakes/random **** from the Horse Rotorvator period. To me, though, i find it to be a truly cohesive record. It's chaos makes it complete.



Would you rather have aids or bbq spare ribs

Hmmmm.....spare ribs.
 
i know you've posted about "bomber fatigue" in the chicago market (it's certainly something i felt and wasn't sure if it was unique to me before you posted it), but did the 'bomber fatigue' trend continue, or has it more or less flatlined?
 
It seems like 2014 Bourbon County prices were much higher in Chicagoland than every other market. IMO every bottle shop sets it's prices off of what Binny's sets their prices at. Basically my question is: Is it all your fault that all of Chicagoland was paying $28+ for a 4-pack of Regular?
 
It seems like 2014 Bourbon County prices were much higher in Chicagoland than every other market. IMO every bottle shop sets it's prices off of what Binny's sets their prices at. Basically my question is: Is it all your fault that all of Chicagoland was paying $28+ for a 4-pack of Regular?

#shouldhavegonetocostco.org
 
i know you've posted about "bomber fatigue" in the chicago market (it's certainly something i felt and wasn't sure if it was unique to me before you posted it), but did the 'bomber fatigue' trend continue, or has it more or less flatlined?

Oh it's still very much in effect, and it's hitting everyone, from the smaller Chicagoland breweries to giant regionals/nationals like Deschutes, where even some of there stuff i'd be hesitant to order more than a case or two of.

The big thing is that people are getting tired of being burned on decent to good beer. There are only so many times you're gunna buy *INSERT LOCAL TINY GUY HERE*'s beer and go "Well, that was better than homebrew." at $9 a bottle when everyone you KNOW is making solid, quality beer is coming around $9 a six pack. Customers are more educated about pricing, and also a lot of you guys & gals that have been doing this for a few years are settling down, nesting, about what you like, and you're buying less variety, or at least being more cautious.

Do you regularly make a fuss over inappropriate beer labels or was it just an Asian thing?

In general i'm of the opinion that beer should be sold on it's own ****ing merits, rather than lazy & pandering marketing, so yes. This wasn't the first time i'd called a brewery out on that behavior, and i'm sure it won't be the last.

The only reason the Happy Ending thing went apeshit nuclear is because it happened literally the exact same day they were in town for their "Hey look we're new in the market let's go talk to the media" tour. However, something like this was bound to happen because the craft beer market's gotten large enough where the people that agree with me are, by and large, becoming the majority opinion, and the cultural swing on the pendulum is currently on the tolerant side. The support for the stance i took was overwhelming, from customers to industry. More than one brewery owner called me to say thank you.

It seems like 2014 Bourbon County prices were much higher in Chicagoland than every other market. IMO every bottle shop sets it's prices off of what Binny's sets their prices at. Basically my question is: Is it all your fault that all of Chicagoland was paying $28+ for a 4-pack of Regular?

100% no. I fought that price increase tooth and nail and was completely outvoted.
 
Did you ever promise anything to people in line, such as donuts or a specific allocation, and then not fulfill the promise? Both of those things happened in Indianapolis at an overhyped Black Friday release and I swear I thought MordorMongo was going to finally fly off of his rocker over some bismarks.

The ongoing concept of the Black Friday GI release annoys the **** out of me because I have to make an annual choice between a sale on men's jeans at JC Penny or a combination of 4 entire bottles of a Goose Island beer in a 12oz format. I don't even shop at JC Penny. The original concept for the release of Rare and Vanilla seemed OK, but the spread to Indianapolis has helped play into the joke of the current Midwest craft beer scene. Indy is a complete joke, and a couple buddies have expressed the same of the recent past 2 Chicago releases.

I hate people, not Binnys. Binnys doesn't chase indianapolis trucks around town if they don't have scheduled releases to only flip them for $ or whalezbrah.
 
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Did you really sell your QMMG for $600?







































75_zpshndyqc5y.gif
 
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It seems like 2014 Bourbon County prices were much higher in Chicagoland than every other market. IMO every bottle shop sets it's prices off of what Binny's sets their prices at. Basically my question is: Is it all your fault that all of Chicagoland was paying $28+ for a 4-pack of Regular?
Eh Philly often sells them at $10 a bottle, so no, Chicago wasn't the most expensive market at all. Wait until next year when it's 16.9oz bottles!
 
Eh Philly often sells them at $10 a bottle, so no, Chicago wasn't the most expensive market at all. Wait until next year when it's 16.9oz bottles!
Yeah $7-$10 single bottles happen all over. But stores that usually price good were $30/4-pack because Binny's started the prices at $28. I didn't buy any in Chicago because of that. Bought a case at Christmas time in Orlando for $23/4-pack.
 
is the rumor that you refused to sell limited release beers to women in line at releases true?
 
Did you ever promise anything to people in line, such as donuts or a specific allocation, and then not fulfill the promise? Both of those things happened in Indianapolis at an overhyped Black Friday release and I swear I thought MordorMongo was going to finally fly off of his rocker over some bismarks.

The ongoing concept of the Black Friday GI release annoys the **** out of me because I have to make an annual choice between a sale on men's jeans at JC Penny or a combination of 4 entire bottles of a Goose Island beer in a 12oz format. I don't even shop at JC Penny. The original concept for the release of Rare and Vanilla seemed OK, but the spread to Indianapolis has helped play into the joke of the current Midwest craft beer scene. Indy is a complete joke, and a couple buddies have expressed the same of the recent past 2 Chicago releases.

I hate people, not Binnys. Binnys doesn't chase indianapolis trucks around town if they don't have scheduled releases to only flip them for $ or whalezbrah.

Not that i'm aware of. My entire goal has always been "under promise and over deliver." This past Black Friday a few people were pretty pissed off they couldn't get everything they wanted but, but i never promised anything, so
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I heard about the business at Kahn's, and i think Al simply bit off more than he could chew with that one. (Full disclosure: Al's a pal.)

As for the rest, i fully support the idea that people should just drink their ****ing beer and quit treating it like Pokemon. I've said that forever. I think trading is stupid, i think the cliques that have sprung up are stupid, i think the one-upmanship is stupid. Limits are put in place so that people that want to drink it can.

People seem to forget that the allegory was that Ahab wasted his life on a myopic and ultimately futile quest.

So. What transpired to make you part ways with Binny's?

I simply could not work for them anymore. It wasn't an easy decision. I'm still reeling from it. It's like a breakup in a long relationship. It's for the best, but it sucks right now.

Did you really sell your QMMG for $600?

75_zpshndyqc5y.gif

Muff Wiggler 4 Lyfe!

And yes i did. I sold the entire Eurorack, actually. After i got the Serge the Eurorack just didn't feel necessary anymore. I was gunna buy something else with the proceeds, like a Prophet 6 or an OSCar, but now it's a cushion for my stint with unemployment.

So I finally have a face to put with the DDB "Get it at Binnnnnneys" guy. I had wondered who that actually was... You seem a lot more educated than your videos portray.

What videos....? This?



is the rumor that you refused to sell limited release beers to women in line at releases true?

Not at all. What happened was, a few years ago (2011 maybe?) i only got one case of KBS, and so i tried, in retrospect a terrible idea: One Per Household limit, figuring it would cut down on muling. A couple walked in, and i told them one bottle. They were pissed, and accused me of sexism (ironic, considering my very public stance to the opposite) and said it was Her that got him into beer, not Him that got her into it and stuff like that. They were hyperpissed so i offered to sell them the second bottle after he paid for the first, and they said no & left in a huff and sent a letter to the corporate office and all that jazz.

One on hand, dude is/was a regular in the beer trading circles so i was totally right about them trying to skirt allocations, on the other, it's the dumbest limit requirement i have EVER put in place and DOES make it possible for sore feelings. I apologized to him a few months ago when he came back in the store looking for whiskey, and he said water under the bridge, so there you go.
 
Not at all. What happened was, a few years ago (2011 maybe?) i only got one case of KBS, and so i tried, in retrospect a terrible idea: One Per Household limit, figuring it would cut down on muling. A couple walked in, and i told them one bottle. They were pissed, and accused me of sexism (ironic, considering my very public stance to the opposite) and said it was Her that got him into beer, not Him that got her into it and stuff like that. They were hyperpissed so i offered to sell them the second bottle after he paid for the first, and they said no & left in a huff and sent a letter to the corporate office and all that jazz.

One on hand, dude is/was a regular in the beer trading circles so i was totally right about them trying to skirt allocations, on the other, it's the dumbest limit requirement i have EVER put in place and DOES make it possible for sore feelings. I apologized to him a few months ago when he came back in the store looking for whiskey, and he said water under the bridge, so there you go.

along these lines, what other mistakes do you think you've made as a beer department manager?
 
along these lines, what other mistakes do you think you've made as a beer department manager?

Not leaving sooner :p

Honestly, i was damn good at that job. I mean, everyone makes mistakes, but i can't think of anything major off the top of my head, aside from that One Per Household monstrosity previously mentioned.

I could have been smarter about the Happy Ending thing, that was acting impulsively rather than thinking things through. I dont think it was a mistake calling them out on it, but how i handled it was.

Why such drama over a stockroom photo?

What, Happy Ending? Already answered that.
 
The Bourbon County stockpile that led to the "Betrayed By the Community" speech.

Ohhhhhhhhh that. Yeah, i wigged the **** out over that, and for good reason. Allocations are super tightly controlled, it's a matter of market intelligence. I wouldn't want anyone knowing how many cases i got, same as other places wouldn't want anyone to know what they got either. It's business, plain and simple. **** like that gets the employee in trouble, me in trouble, the store in trouble, the wholesaler in trouble, the brewery in trouble.

An employee sent that picture out, to a customer, which betrayed my trust because i said no pictures. The individual that sent it around betrayed our trust. The brewery freaks out and felt like i betrayed their trust. Etc etc etc. If you honestly think another store didn't see that and say "**** Binny's, **** the brewery, **** the wholesaler" etc then, well, i don't know what to tell you.

Personally, i was all for making a giant, impactful display, but that's not how it happened. So yah, I absolutely felt betrayed by the community for passing it around, absolutely, due to all the above.

jeff-goldblum.jpg


Ya know?
 
Should the 3-tier system be blown up? Like, who cares how much beer 1 store gets? You tell every other store they are the highest seller or my product they get lion share always. Whole system feels shady all the way down to the customer.
 
Ohhhhhhhhh that. Yeah, i wigged the **** out over that, and for good reason. Allocations are super tightly controlled, it's a matter of market intelligence. I wouldn't want anyone knowing how many cases i got, same as other places wouldn't want anyone to know what they got either. It's business, plain and simple. **** like that gets the employee in trouble, me in trouble, the store in trouble, the wholesaler in trouble, the brewery in trouble.

An employee sent that picture out, to a customer, which betrayed my trust because i said no pictures. The individual that sent it around betrayed our trust. The brewery freaks out and felt like i betrayed their trust. Etc etc etc. If you honestly think another store didn't see that and say "**** Binny's, **** the brewery, **** the wholesaler" etc then, well, i don't know what to tell you.

Personally, i was all for making a giant, impactful display, but that's not how it happened. So yah, I absolutely felt betrayed by the community for passing it around, absolutely, due to all the above.

jeff-goldblum.jpg


Ya know?
I suppose from a consumer perspective, I like to have all of the information I can get. Faulting beer geeks for collecting information seems foolhardy.
 
Should the 3-tier system be blown up? Like, who cares how much beer 1 store gets? You tell every other store they are the highest seller or my product they get lion share always. Whole system feels shady all the way down to the customer.

The merit system seems fine for special releases to me. If i open my own store, as an example, and don't carry a single Founder's product, why should they give me any KBS? Because i want some?

As for the three tiered system, I think the laws just haven't caught up to the exponential growth of the business yet. NWBA does a great job protecting their interests, but here's the thing: They're a logistics industry that puts a ****load of people to work. So no, i don't think the three tier system should go away, and even if i did, it won't. But there is obvious room for improvement. Illinois is actually one of the more distributor-friendly markets, if you can believe that.

Also think about how much more your beer would cost if a brewery incurred all the expenses. Brewery X from California self distributing in Illinois, as an example, now needs a warehouse to hold their beer in IL, along with trucks, staff, etc. So brewing, packing, shipping, storing, selling. A distributor lessens that burden and allows the product to get to market cheaper because they can do it for 50 breweries, not just 1. Dig?

If anything, the distribution landscape is starting to change. Many of your favorite large-ish regional breweries that have put in these giant new brew systems have something they haven't had in a long time: Capacity. You know what happens then? They suddenly have inventory, and they need to move through product. So they sign with bigger houses, multi-state Bud and Miller distributors are a hot ticket. They've got a huge footprint and can move volume. And they're not above buying smaller distributors that have portfolios they can't land, look at Windy City as a Reyes acquisition, as an example. Super smart move on both of their parts.
 
I suppose from a consumer perspective, I like to have all of the information I can get. Faulting beer geeks for collecting information seems foolhardy.

I never faulted the beer geeks, i felt betrayed by them. There's a difference. At the end of the day it was that employee's fault, full stop.

It's entirely possible that i overreacted. I did come back, you know :p
 
The merit system seems fine for special releases to me. If i open my own store, as an example, and don't carry a single Founder's product, why should they give me any KBS? Because i want some?
Agree. And this happens with customers as well. Some stores are just better at it than others.

Also think about how much more your beer would cost if a brewery incurred all the expenses. Brewery X from California self distributing in Illinois, as an example, now needs a warehouse to hold their beer in IL, along with trucks, staff, etc. So brewing, packing, shipping, storing, selling. A distributor lessens that burden and allows the product to get to market cheaper because they can do it for 50 breweries, not just 1. Dig?
This doesn't sounds right to me. I don't know anything about the behind the scene numbers, but wouldn't the brewery be able to make more money on each beer sold instead of selling wholesale and then the distributor taking their cut? Also, then the brewery could actually control who got their product and how much they sold it for? GI/ABInbev could stop giving product to certain shops that were gouging prices. Yes, over time different breweries would partner with other breweries to save money on distribution, but I see it in the long wrong saving money for everyone instead of the opposite.
 
Agree. And this happens with customers as well. Some stores are just better at it than others.


This doesn't sounds right to me. I don't know anything about the behind the scene numbers, but wouldn't the brewery be able to make more money on each beer sold instead of selling wholesale and then the distributor taking their cut? Also, then the brewery could actually control who got their product and how much they sold it for? GI/ABInbev could stop giving product to certain shops that were gouging prices. Yes, over time different breweries would partner with other breweries to save money on distribution, but I see it in the long wrong saving money for everyone instead of the opposite.

consider time to market in that. it takes a long time to set up a warehouse, and trucks, and a distribution network, and relationships, and that's all time that you're not selling beer. i can't imagine 3 tier ever going away completely but i do see less 'hard' 3-tier and more self-distribution happening.

sorry, not my ama, just thoughts.
 
Agree. And this happens with customers as well. Some stores are just better at it than others.


This doesn't sounds right to me. I don't know anything about the behind the scene numbers, but wouldn't the brewery be able to make more money on each beer sold instead of selling wholesale and then the distributor taking their cut? Also, then the brewery could actually control who got their product and how much they sold it for? GI/ABInbev could stop giving product to certain shops that were gouging prices. Yes, over time different breweries would partner with other breweries to save money on distribution, but I see it in the long wrong saving money for everyone instead of the opposite.

Sure they'd make more per unit sold, but think about how much overhead there is in buying/leasing a suitable space, paying for licenses, buying a fleet of trucks, etc. Then you have to staff it, with not only warehouse people, but sales people. In Chicago there are literally thousands of accounts, and most distributor sales reps have maybe 60-80 accounts. Labor alone makes it not worthwhile.

It might make sense for the giant breweries, but not for anyone else. Not yet anyway. It's diminishing returns.
 
consider time to market in that. it takes a long time to set up a warehouse, and trucks, and a distribution network, and relationships, and that's all time that you're not selling beer. i can't imagine 3 tier ever going away completely but i do see less 'hard' 3-tier and more self-distribution happening.

sorry, not my ama, just thoughts.
I agree. IMO options make everything better and cheaper. To say that there is no option but to go through a distributor makes everything more expensive. If someone says, I can do it myself cheaper, why not let them?
 
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