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Os

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Welcome CellarmakerTim and thanks for agreeing to do this!

So, haven met both you and Connor and trying your beers...

1. I'm geeked to see that you will be pouring at the new Levi's stadium for 49ers games!. What's that mean to you guys?

2. You guys have already been working on some collabs with people like Jean from Tired Hands. What has been your favorite collaboration?

3. Who would you like to brew with next?

4. Your first bottle release is coming up. Can you tell us more about this beer?
 
No questions to ask CellarmakerTim, but just congratulations on the brewery. It is a very welcome addition to the City and Bay Area, and you guys are killing it with the hoppy offerings. I am there with my growlers at least once a week :D

Looking forward to what you guys have in store for the future, especially in bottles.
 
Welcome CellarmakerTim and thanks for agreeing to do this!

So, haven met both you and Connor and trying your beers...

1. I'm geeked to see that you will be pouring at the new Levi's stadium for 49ers games!. What's that mean to you guys?

2. You guys have already been working on some collabs with people like Jean from Tired Hands. What has been your favorite collaboration?

3. Who would you like to brew with next?

4. Your first bottle release is coming up. Can you tell us more about this beer?

Hey Os! Connor and I are really excited to be here connecting with the community, so thanks for having us. I welcome any and all questions whether it's homebrewing, industry, philosophical or even personal.

1. So we kinda took a shot in the dark with Levi's. We ended up being the first (only?) small craft brewery to contact them. It sounds like the stadium is going to be ridiculously modern with an amazing attention to detail on the wine and food program. It seems however, although this may have changed, that the beer program was a bit lacking. Long story short, they liked our presentation and are bringing us in a few kegs at a time. To tell the truth I have no idea where in the stadium we will be, but I do remember something about a beer area, but I wouldn't expect the Public House.

This is great exposure for us to a crowd that we probably would have little towards. I don't think we will be very popular at first, with more common names leading the sales, but hopefully word will spread. If anything I can drink my own beer in a world class stadium which is wicked kick ass!

2. We are really trying to collab with people that we have a history with, or some kind of story. Collabs garner a lot of attention so they're good for sales, but they can come off as publicity stunts. That's why we are careful in choosing who we do it with; we don't want to devalue the beer in any way.

I can't really choose a favorite, they've all been awesome. It's hard to deny Taco Hands though. I think the video sums that up

The near future collabs will be Marin Brewing Company, my former employer. Also Connor and I are doing one with Monkey Paw/Hamilton's in San Diego which is the only account we''ve sold to down there.

3. I'd really like to work with Tim from Sante Adairius soon; we have talked, but nothing serious. And someday I'd like to work with, god even follow for a few days, Jeff Erway of La Cumbre who I kinda idolize...

4. Our first bottle is a 750mL Brett. Drei saison called Jezebel. It's a Drei bomb with huge pineapple aromas and, coming in at close to 8%, is just rich and juicy and spicy from the rye and Saison Dupont yeast. It is not sour, which some may be expecting, but it has a nice acidity. It's a great beer for food pairing. I'm very happy with it as our first release. We will be releasing it early next week, so stay tuned.

-Tim
 
so geeked to try that Jezebel!

you have quite a following out here in NJ... just off people I know... what are your plans for growing? Are you looking to grow a lot or stay mainly local?
 
That's great to hear that people all the way out in NJ have heard of Cellarmaker. I'm from Boston originally and would love nothing more than having my beer on the East Coast. Alas, I could never see us getting regular distribution out there. I would never rule out the possibility of us doing a night in NYC or Boston here or there.

Connor and I talk about the growth of our company non stop. The main issue with expanding is how do we do it responsibly? Our brewing schedule has us making somewhere between 2-4 different IPAs and pale ales every two weeks and our self distribution allows those beer to go on tap at accounts within 0-72 hours after the tasting room (much ideally). That means everyone is drinking the freshest Cellarmaker wherever you may be. That is a model we don't want to mess with. We don't want our customers getting burned on an old keg. I've been in those shows a thousand times and I'm tired of it.

As presently staffed, we are reaching the limits of how much beer we can deliver. To increase a little isn't financially sensible. To increase significantly presents freshness problems as you begin to enter more accounts, some less open to the "fresh is best" issue.

For now, we are a San Francisco neighborhood brewery making beer for the Bay Area.

-Tim
 
I also mainly want to say congrats and thanks -- we met briefly a few weeks ago, and I've known Connor for quite awhile. It's so great to have a brewery with your approach to hops and freshness in the area, and I'm psyched to get some Jezebel bottles in the next couple of days.

Can you talk a bit about how you guys got going? If I recall correctly, I heard three years ago about winning a staff home-brew contest at a local store...
 
Hey CellarmakerTim! Really enjoyed the collab with Curt (Smug Alert) as well as everything else I've had from you guys so far. Welcome to the site, and keep cranking out the great beer. Looking forward to stopping by next time I'm in the Bay. Sorry, none of that was a question.
 
Hey Os! Connor and I are really excited to be here connecting with the community, so thanks for having us. I welcome any and all questions whether it's homebrewing, industry, philosophical or even personal.

1. So we kinda took a shot in the dark with Levi's. We ended up being the first (only?) small craft brewery to contact them. It sounds like the stadium is going to be ridiculously modern with an amazing attention to detail on the wine and food program. It seems however, although this may have changed, that the beer program was a bit lacking. Long story short, they liked our presentation and are bringing us in a few kegs at a time. To tell the truth I have no idea where in the stadium we will be, but I do remember something about a beer area, but I wouldn't expect the Public House.

This is great exposure for us to a crowd that we probably would have little towards. I don't think we will be very popular at first, with more common names leading the sales, but hopefully word will spread. If anything I can drink my own beer in a world class stadium which is wicked kick ass!

2. We are really trying to collab with people that we have a history with, or some kind of story. Collabs garner a lot of attention so they're good for sales, but they can come off as publicity stunts. That's why we are careful in choosing who we do it with; we don't want to devalue the beer in any way.

I can't really choose a favorite, they've all been awesome. It's hard to deny Taco Hands though. I think the video sums that up

The near future collabs will be Marin Brewing Company, my former employer. Also Connor and I are doing one with Monkey Paw/Hamilton's in San Diego which is the only account we''ve sold to down there.

3. I'd really like to work with Tim from Sante Adairius soon; we have talked, but nothing serious. And someday I'd like to work with, god even follow for a few days, Jeff Erway of La Cumbre who I kinda idolize...

4. Our first bottle is a 750mL Brett. Drei saison called Jezebel. It's a Drei bomb with huge pineapple aromas and, coming in at close to 8%, is just rich and juicy and spicy from the rye and Saison Dupont yeast. It is not sour, which some may be expecting, but it has a nice acidity. It's a great beer for food pairing. I'm very happy with it as our first release. We will be releasing it early next week, so stay tuned.

-Tim

Stopped in a few months ago (on the recommendation of some of the Bay Area dudes here) and was really impressed by Mo'Citra and Coffee & Cigarettes.
 
That's great to hear that people all the way out in NJ have heard of Cellarmaker. I'm from Boston originally and would love nothing more than having my beer on the East Coast. Alas, I could never see us getting regular distribution out there. I would never rule out the possibility of us doing a night in NYC or Boston here or there.

Connor and I talk about the growth of our company non stop. The main issue with expanding is how do we do it responsibly? Our brewing schedule has us making somewhere between 2-4 different IPAs and pale ales every two weeks and our self distribution allows those beer to go on tap at accounts within 0-72 hours after the tasting room (much ideally). That means everyone is drinking the freshest Cellarmaker wherever you may be. That is a model we don't want to mess with. We don't want our customers getting burned on an old keg. I've been in those shows a thousand times and I'm tired of it.

As presently staffed, we are reaching the limits of how much beer we can deliver. To increase a little isn't financially sensible. To increase significantly presents freshness problems as you begin to enter more accounts, some less open to the "fresh is best" issue.

For now, we are a San Francisco neighborhood brewery making beer for the Bay Area.

-Tim

Yes please. A friend brought out a growler of Are You Afraid of the Dank on Saturday. It was superb.
 
I also mainly want to say congrats and thanks -- we met briefly a few weeks ago, and I've known Connor for quite awhile. It's so great to have a brewery with your approach to hops and freshness in the area, and I'm psyched to get some Jezebel bottles in the next couple of days.

Can you talk a bit about how you guys got going? If I recall correctly, I heard three years ago about winning a staff home-brew contest at a local store...

Connor and I met while I was brewing at Marin Brewing and he worked front of the house. I instantly recognized him as a very beer knowledgable man and had some pretty good homebrew too! I never won anything for my home brews, Connor? Anyways Connor left and went to work at City Beer Store where he only furthered his knowledge. We reconnected a few years later when he was looking for a brewer to help him start a brewery. The rest of the story is basically long phone calls about money, hops and what the hell we were going to name the brewery. Not sure what exactly you want to hear but I can get as detailed as you like :)
 
Connor and I met while I was brewing at Marin Brewing and he worked front of the house. I instantly recognized him as a very beer knowledgable man and had some pretty good homebrew too! I never won anything for my home brews, Connor? Anyways Connor left and went to work at City Beer Store where he only furthered his knowledge. We reconnected a few years later when he was looking for a brewer to help him start a brewery. The rest of the story is basically long phone calls about money, hops and what the hell we were going to name the brewery. Not sure what exactly you want to hear but I can get as detailed as you like :)
That's pretty much what I was looking for. I think Connor won some City Beer Store competition with a DIPA -- always assumed you were his brewing partner or at least an advisor once I tasted how great your hoppy beers were.

Also: Please make Questionable 2 again. And Permanent Daylight.
 
So you got your start at Marin...I'm actually a bit interested in the difference between brewing there and at Cellarmaker. Some friends of mine actually live a few blocks away in Larkspur and we went last summer. Were you basically brewing other people's recipes there? Did you have say one or two lines that were for you to experiment with? I enjoyed myself there, but the difference I had between their beer and yours was astounding.
 
So you got your start at Marin...I'm actually a bit interested in the difference between brewing there and at Cellarmaker. Some friends of mine actually live a few blocks away in Larkspur and we went last summer. Were you basically brewing other people's recipes there? Did you have say one or two lines that were for you to experiment with? I enjoyed myself there, but the difference I had between their beer and yours was astounding.

Marin has a set line up of brews, especially Mt. Tam Pale Ale (Read: the money maker), that need to be brewed on a fairly set schedule. They produce a lot of beer out of a pretty small brewery. When there was time to make a new recipe, that gift belonged only to Arne, the head honcho. So yes, I brewed Marin's recipes only. But I continued to home brew, and I developed all of the other skills that are essential to running a brewery. Also, brewing the same recipes over and over again really internalizes what you like and don't like about them. Every time I brewed and tasted, I was assembling beers and theories about beer structure in my head, but not until Cellarmaker did I get to put them into practice. So to answer your question, some of the beers are different, because I am not Arne, but there are similarities with some styles. Most importantly I don't think I've brewed a "bad" beer yet and thats because Marin hasn't brewed one in a decade.
 
Marin has a set line up of brews, especially Mt. Tam Pale Ale (Read: the money maker), that need to be brewed on a fairly set schedule. They produce a lot of beer out of a pretty small brewery. When there was time to make a new recipe, that gift belonged only to Arne, the head honcho. So yes, I brewed Marin's recipes only. But I continued to home brew, and I developed all of the other skills that are essential to running a brewery. Also, brewing the same recipes over and over again really internalizes what you like and don't like about them. Every time I brewed and tasted, I was assembling beers and theories about beer structure in my head, but not until Cellarmaker did I get to put them into practice. So to answer your question, some of the beers are different, because I am not Arne, but there are similarities with some styles. Most importantly I don't think I've brewed a "bad" beer yet and thats because Marin hasn't brewed one in a decade.

Didn't want you to think I thought Marin's beers were bad. Really dug the IPA and Marin-er Weisse when I was out there. Just wanted to pick your brain about the experience.

Cheers
 
What's your general approach to hop addition timing? I'm really trying to work on my technique/practices for homebrewing IPAs. Lately I've gone with just a bittering addition at 60 or 90 minutes and then a whirlpool addition at flameout and some dry hopping. Do you think there's anything you get from, say, a 15 minute addition that you don't get from a combo of bittering and flameout? Do you have a set schedule for your hoppy beers in terms of "We add hops at X, Y, and Z points in the brewing process", and then different recipes are just a matter of adjusting hop varietals and quantities, or might two different IPAs have hop additions at different times?
 
What's your general approach to hop addition timing? I'm really trying to work on my technique/practices for homebrewing IPAs. Lately I've gone with just a bittering addition at 60 or 90 minutes and then a whirlpool addition at flameout and some dry hopping. Do you think there's anything you get from, say, a 15 minute addition that you don't get from a combo of bittering and flameout? Do you have a set schedule for your hoppy beers in terms of "We add hops at X, Y, and Z points in the brewing process", and then different recipes are just a matter of adjusting hop varietals and quantities, or might two different IPAs have hop additions at different times?
In general I do a 60 minute boil with my bittering at the beginning of the boil. Typically the next addition is a final one in the boil. For all the Mo' beers I do add a couple of pounds of Columbus at 10 min. from the end of boil, mainly to get the piney flavor but to drive off of the more volatile sulphur compounds which can be mustardy or oniony. Not to say those are bad things, they just belong in that series a little less... Or what I would describe as deeper, more obscured in the profile.

I believe in maximizing hops for aroma and fresh flavor, in my opinion, that comes mostly from whirlpool and dry hop additions. We add a ton of both which ****s with yield, but we 100% believe its worth it. It's a minimal extra cost to make good hoppy beer.
 
CellarmakerTim, How do you handle having Brett beers and Hoppy beers? Do you have brett/any other bugs you might use equipment and hoppy equipment?
I firmly believe that good sanitation practices are all that you need to brew a sacchromyces fermented beer, uninflected by a neighboring Brett, lacto, pedio or other wildly fermented ale. We use strong sanitizing acid to disinfect stainless steel and all porous substances such as plastic or buna gaskets are separated into Brett/lacto and "clean" categories.

Infection of stainless beers is kinda an old wives tale. For example, lacto is all over malt, thus the ability to create a sour mash in 24 hours or less. Malt dust tends to be all over breweries and the brew house and in the empty tanks. Ipso facto our beers must be infected with lacto. But they're not because sanitation practices are better than ever and I trust mine.

I currently have a tank with two types of sacchro, 2 Bretts and 2 strains of lacto chilling in the brewery. I am not worried about that one bit.

Barrels on the other hand are a different story. Wood is a porous substance even more so than the rubber gaskets we use with our tanks. We could 100% get an infection in a non bretted barrel housed beer because of that fact. Why do I not worry about that. First off, i taste barrels minimally reducing the exposure to open air contamination. Secondly, beers meant for aging sans Brett will never see a barrel that has been previously used for a beer in the brewery, cause there's Brett everywhere and the empty beer soaked barrel is a good place for the infection to start. Finally, Brett, pedio and lacto need like a real good slap on the ass to get going. Pedio a little less,
But we don't use it... yet.
A few (million) cells isn't going to do much if they just float down into the open bung hole of a barrel. I could pour one of those homebrew vials of lacto right into a barrel and I'd bet it would produce very little to no acidity over a good period of time. These cultures are starved of basic nutrients. The last thing they want is to be dumped into an alcohol rich substance with very little o eat.
Big chewy under attenuated beers will be the better medium for the bugs. Although I'm quicker to point at human error more than the bugs themselves for the infections we hear about.
 
Tim - I love your beers, wish we could get them a little further east in the Tri-Valley (Caps 'N Taps in Dublin please :))

Anyway, I love you're model of cranking out almost a different beer for every batch and focusing on selling from your brewery and to select locations around SF. My question is, do you think this model can sustain? i.e. not focusing on core beers per say, but rather just great new/different beers all the time and some fan favorite repeats of course. Seems like you're one of the few breweries really embracing this in the Bay Area at least.
 
Tim - I love your beers, wish we could get them a little further east in the Tri-Valley (Caps 'N Taps in Dublin please :))

Anyway, I love you're model of cranking out almost a different beer for every batch and focusing on selling from your brewery and to select locations around SF. My question is, do you think this model can sustain? i.e. not focusing on core beers per say, but rather just great new/different beers all the time and some fan favorite repeats of course. Seems like you're one of the few breweries really embracing this in the Bay Area at least.

Thats a great question. The answer is I don't know. First of all, and I tell everyone who asks me some iteration of this question this, I don't think we could have opened a brewery with this model 5 years previous. I think it takes a certain insatiable hunger for new beer, or "beer ADD" as I've called it, to want to come in to Cellarmaker and drink something different every time. Artisan beer has reached a size that has sustainable niches, the ADD crowd being one of them.

Our major demographic is also on the younger side (25-40). I fall into this category. We are the You Tube generation. The smart phone in hand, always updating our status or finding the newest .gif generation. We operate at light speed now and our tastes change just as fast. What's my favorite beer on tap right now? Whatever's the newest. Every time we release a new beer (2-3 a week, typically) we see a surge in customers, so I'm not alone in sentiment.

This market is increasing at an incredible rate, so I think that we could most definitely continue on the path that we have embarked on.

There's a creative element, however, that is a challenge to sustain. 76 batches and something like 55 different beers is not easy. I can only predict some of our beers to become weirder as we go along as we become more comfortable and begin to think more and more outside the box.

And of course, our barrel aging projects are getting closer and closer to being finished! I'm really excited to share those with you guys.

Cheers.
 
Can I get a tour sometime and ask a shitload of questions about how to brew dank hoppy beers? I'll wash kegs and the like. I'd really like to incorporate some sort of "whirlpooling" into my homebrewing setup, but the only thing I can think of besides manually stirring, would be a stir bar after flame out, which doesn't seem practical for centrifuging the trub to the middle.

Thanks again!
 
Can I get a tour sometime and ask a shitload of questions about how to brew dank hoppy beers? I'll wash kegs and the like. I'd really like to incorporate some sort of "whirlpooling" into my homebrewing setup, but the only thing I can think of besides manually stirring, would be a stir bar after flame out, which doesn't seem practical for centrifuging the trub to the middle.

Thanks again!

Get a pump for your kettle and it's easy to whirlpool.
 
Can I get a tour sometime and ask a shitload of questions about how to brew dank hoppy beers? I'll wash kegs and the like. I'd really like to incorporate some sort of "whirlpooling" into my homebrewing setup, but the only thing I can think of besides manually stirring, would be a stir bar after flame out, which doesn't seem practical for centrifuging the trub to the middle.

Thanks again!
It's a little too crazy in the brewery to be having peeps hanging out and asking questions, but this forum is the perfect place to do it, so ask away.

I don't know your home brew setup but I'll tell you what I used to do. I had a copper coil immersion chiller and what I'd do is grab hold of it and just start stirring the kettle with that. Not only are you sorta whirl pooling but you're also moving the wort around so you don't just chill what's surrounding the coil. Add your hops somewhere between 160-170 degrees and man will they pop!
 
I don't have any left and I wouldn't give 'em to ya if I did! :)

Conner gave me the heads up of SAB and where the hops are going. Saddened as this was one of my favorite/peculiar hops this past year.
Was the domestic offering so minimal that Terrapin was able to obtain it over Le Cumbre?

Also what was the collab concoction with Monkeypaw while down here this week?
 
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hey CellarmakerTim! any plans on some collabs with any nearby brewery's? sante adairius? or almanac?
Nothing concrete but we've talked to a few of our favorites and everyone seems interested. Make sure you check out Honey Badger DIPA that I brewed over at Marin. Should be out in a week or so. 240lbs of wildflower honey, Galaxy and Simcoe hops. Honey Badger don't give a ****!
 
Conner gave me the heads up of SAB and where the hops are going. Saddened as this was one of my favorite/peculiar hops this past year.
Was the domestic offering so minimal that Terrapin was able to obtain it over Le Cumbre?

Also what was the collab concoction with Monkeypaw while down here this week?
I have no idea where Southern Passion hops will end up. Probably in Miller owned "craft" brands here in the US. We will do our best to get more, but it's probably a longshot. We have a tiny bit more which you will see in a batch of Southern Dobis which I brewed today and most likely another batch of Southern Passion single hop IPA.

The collab with Monkey Paw is a Passion Fruit IPA with Nelson, Citra, Cascade, Simcoe and Zythos. I'm spacing... That could be a little off. Should be tasty and it will be on tap at Hamilton's when we do a night there August 29th.
 
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