Fantome Swing Tops

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

sidetracked

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
771
Reaction score
2,341
Location
Chicago, IL
As far as I know the swing top Fantome bottles are relatively new to the market, so no one may have an answer for this, but how do people imagine these will hold up? The main reason I ask is because the cap on the bottle of Extra Sour Dark I purchased is slightly raised on one side and doesn't appear to be seating 100% correctly. Regardless of the cap situation, is this beer even worth holding for a while? If it has smokey rubbery off flavors is there even a chance they will disappear?
 
Fantome is not the first or only brewery to do this. De Dolle put their first anniversary beer in swingtop bottles as far back as 1982. On some rating sites, you can read reviews based on drinking this beer right up until last year that read as if it is drinking very well for being in a swingtop bottle for 30 years. (Calling jedwards for the expert opinion!)

If the rubber grommet isnt seated properly, it might be a lost cause already. However, I found this beer to be so enjoyable that I traded and purchased more after drinking one and I plan to cellar some for a while before drinking all 3 (or more versions that get released.) None of the bottles i tried of the extra dark had the burnt rubber/plastic character that was found in many other beers released prior to it such as Hiver, Black Ghost Noire de Noire, Classic saison with new label and Boo. The extra sour dark version was brewed with a type of black tea that I think imparts slight earthen to smokey aspects but by no means is offensive like some of the bad bottles are that are out there.
 
Side note: I looked at the bottles I have, less than half of them are seated 100% perfect and flush. I opened some of the ones that were slightly skewed and there was nothing wrong with them. They need to be really, really off and uneven to cause a problem in sealing.
 
Fantome is not the first or only brewery to do this. De Dolle put their first anniversary beer in swingtop bottles as far back as 1982. On some rating sites, you can read reviews based on drinking this beer right up until last year that read as if it is drinking very well for being in a swingtop bottle for 30 years. (Calling jedwards for the expert opinion!)

We had a bottle of the original SB (link to beer) with a good seal and high fill level in January 2012. It had been stored on its side for a very long time. IIRC, it did open with a hiss. I don't have any photos of the pours, maybe jedwards does. I didn't attribute any concerns about the beer flavors with it being from a swing-top. Hopefully there will be more feedback available in January 2014.

Also, De Dolle has done with with at least one other beer, which leads me to believe that it has probably been done with a bit of their stuff before they had a bottling line fully in place.

So, OP, I would not worry about it too much on a bottle that appears to have a flush seal. You could always wax it if you think there could be concerns.
 
You could always wax it if you think there could be concerns.

I love you like fat kids love cake, seriously. But waxing beer to "seal" it is about as useful as ****ing to save someone's virginity.

Ive never seen or heard of a wax mixture of any sort that wasnt oxygen permiable.
 
I love you like fat kids love cake, seriously. But waxing beer to "seal" it is about as useful as ****ing to save someone's virginity.

Ive never seen or heard of a wax mixture of any sort that wasnt oxygen permiable.
i dont see a benefit of waxing a compromised bottle with long term storage intentions. i personally have had good experiences with bottles that have been waxed and are around 10yrs old though, so i cant see how waxing a swing top would make things worse in the long days of cellaring.
 
I love you like fat kids love cake, seriously. But waxing beer to "seal" it is about as useful as ****ing to save someone's virginity.

Ive never seen or heard of a wax mixture of any sort that wasnt oxygen permiable.
I have had waxed bottles hiss when the wax was cut around the cap. Probably means little for long term storage, but could be helpful if you're worried about a bottle holding up a few weeks.
 
I don't have a photo of the pour -- there was zero carb visible or on the palate, but it was also a 30-year-old beer. My expectation would generally be that it's both dependent on cellaring conditions and on the quality of the rubber seal -- it's essentially the same mechanism as a crown cap (compressed plastic provides the gas-tight barrier in both cases). I have a couple more De Dolle flip-tops of similar vintage, one has a reasonable if not great fill, and one has a spectacular fill level. Will provide quality reports later this winter...

Also, this seems like a great test case for my long-term-no-oxidation-cellaring idea: Just cellar the bottles in a CO2 pressurized corny keg. Put a gauge on it and top it up a couple times a year.
 
If something's worth doing, it's worth doing right ;)

But more seriously, it is extremely impractical, but would be a possible way to cellar a sketchy fliptop, or even a screwtop growler if you really wanted to (though a fullsize one definitely wouldn't fit through the cleaning port).
 
If something's worth doing, it's worth doing right ;)

But more seriously, it is extremely impractical, but would be a possible way to cellar a sketchy fliptop, or even a screwtop growler if you really wanted to (though a fullsize one definitely wouldn't fit through the cleaning port).
I see a really badass option with some 4" PVC and some cheap-ish brass fittings here. Easy to store, cheap, fits a lot of different size bottles. Realistically, with a quick CO2 purge, you wouldn't need much pressure (a few psi, probably) to counteract the potential issues discussed above.

And who gives a **** about impractical? :-D
 
image.png
 
1488158_597825256937470_2129604808_n.jpg


Cracked mine open last night.. liquid ashtray :( Missing the "bandaid" taste, but still really smoky. I've had a bottle from the same batch that was decent, but this was bad. That's what I get for not sticking to Magic Ghost lol
 
1488158_597825256937470_2129604808_n.jpg


Cracked mine open last night.. liquid ashtray :( Missing the "bandaid" taste, but still really smoky. I've had a bottle from the same batch that was decent, but this was bad. That's what I get for not sticking to Magic Ghost lol

What was bad about it? Over the top smoke? You have really peaked my interest since it seems you had it before and now this experience was different. (Insert obligatory lol its Fantome, every bottle is different.) But serious, ive drank from 3 different bottles and equally enjoyed them all. A smokiness was present in all of them but their level of tartness was different in each one.

Serious question. Have you ever had smoked tea before? Im not trying to defend Fantome (well, yeah I am because to death do us part.)

But anyway, I am fairly certain Dany used tea in this brew that imparts the smokiness. Have you tried the off batches of classic saison, hiver, printemps, black noire de noire, etc? Do you find the smokiness to be comparible to that or something different? I believe the lack of plastic notes in extra sour dark are because that particular issue was fixed causing the smoke/bandaid/tire fire. But this different smokiness I believe exists because of the tea that was used.

You mentioned magic ghost. Im a fan but the last bottle of that I drank was a bit off too. Im curious if tea was used in that one as well (not the smoky kind) and im wondering about the volume/strength of tea and how that works in beer. Can the tannins in a strong tea sort of drop to the bottom of the beer or tank causing stronger/weaker proportions depending how early in the bottling process it was filled? (Sorry, I didnt mean to single you out and fire all these thoughts/questions your way, im just brainstorming and trying to understand from a brewers perspective.)

Anxiously awaiting Trady 1v1willwreku and anyone else whom had a bottle to drink and chime in with an opinion and constructive discussion.
 
Last edited:
What was bad about it? Over the top smoke? You have really peaked my interest since it seems you had it before and now this experience was different. (Insert obligatory lol its Fantome, every bottle is different.) But serious, ive drank from 3 different bottles and equally enjoyed them all. A smokiness was present in all of them but their level of tartness was different in each one.

Serious question. Have you ever had smoked tea before? Im not trying to defend Fantome (well, yeah I am because to death do us part.)

But anyway, I am fairly certain Dany used tea in this brew that imparts the smokiness. Have you tried the off batches of classic saison, hiver, printemps, black noire de noire, etc? Do you find the smokiness to be comparible to that or something different? I believe the lack of plastic notes in extra sour dark are because that particular issue was fixed causing the smoke/bandaid/tire fire. But this different smokiness I believe exists because of the tea that was used.

You mentioned magic ghost. Im a fan but the last bottle of that I drank was a bit off too. Im curious if tea was used in that one as well (not the smoky kind) and im wondering about the volume/strength of tea and how that works in beer. Can the tannins in a strong tea sort of drop to the bottom of the beer or tank causing stronger/weaker proportions depending how early in the bottling process it was filled? (Sorry, I didnt mean to single you out and fire all these thoughts/questions your way, im just brainstorming and trying to understand from a brewers perspective.)

Anxiously awaiting Trady 1v1willwreku and anyone else whom had a bottle to drink and chime in with an opinion and constructive discussion.
I consider myself a Fantome fanboy too, and I've had most of the regular lineup. The first bottle of ESD was pleasant with a rauchbier quality and bit of sourness.. Definelty not "extra sour" lol but the tartness was there. This bottle was liquid tobacco with zero sour to it. Liquid ashtray is the best way to describe it. Totally different from the first ESD bottle and honestly undrinkable.

My fantome order from Être Gourmet came in last week, and so far all bottles seem spot on, so hopefully most of issues are behind us. I could drink that Magic Ghost all day long.

On a side note, a lot of the first fantomes I had were back when I was stationed in Germany and relatively fresh. I always cringe when I see a 2 year old bottle covered in dust and sitting on a shelf. Poor storage conditions deteriorate some of these before they are purchased and reviewed.
 
Back
Top