Discussion in 'General Beer Topics' started by Michigan, Oct 3, 2013.
Good beer is good beer.
And that particular beer is ridiculously good. I'd rather trade for that than FL homebrew stouts
Says the guy always trying to unload Uli bottles..
Unload? I think I've traded 4 bottles and consumed 25+, and never forced anyone trade with me, and I suspect all those who have traded with me would say I'm more than fair; but if you have some issue w my trading habits please feel free to voice them here.
By your definition couldn't one consider trading any item in high demand for something else as "unloading"? Whether this be the recent canned IPA, adjunct stout, wild ale, lambic, whiskey etc?
Defensive much? I've seen you post ISO:whisk(e)y FT: stuff including Uli bottles numerous times. Uli didn't sound too keen on people trading his beer when I asked him about it, so I figured I'd get a rise out of you, and it worked. That's all. It's your beer, do whatever you want with it.
Someone just bought a Blauw on MBC for 2000 bucks.
Jokes on them.... it's already opened!
This article is being shared around and praised but afaik there is no basis in fact. But... I have no idea why the name. I'm guessing it's because it used to have kriek and vanilla blended so it wasn't a complete Framboise? Does anyone know for sure?
(I checked Lambic.info ofc SeaWatchman )
Edit: I just repeated what you said, I suck at reading.
I may be making shit up but I remember hearing that Rose used to have cherries to add color so it wasn't 100% a framboise. Maybe that could be it?
My favorite quote: "I can’t say I’m too pleased to see a cartoon of a naked woman on the bottle label, as women have a hard enough time being taken seriously in this industry, and labels like these certainly don’t help matters."
Will have a full response to this including quotes from JPVR in a bit.
So if you're going to write a historical article, you should really know what you're talking about and reference primary sources.
No I am confused. Allow me clarify.
The history of raspberry lambic at Brasserie Cantillon dates back to as far as 1909 when inventory taken by Paul Cantillon “indicates that the cellar contain[ed] more raspberry beer than kriek” (Van Roy, 2016a). Fruited beers disappeared from the brewery’s lineup during World War I, but during he 1920s Kriek was produced again and raspberry lambic reappeared for a short time in the 1930s. Shortly after World War II, as lambic became less popular and many breweries turned to sweetening their beers, the tradition of making raspberry lambic at Cantillon disappeared. However, in 1973 Jean-Pierre decided to begin producing the beer again when a friend of the brewery, Willy Gigounon, showed up at the brewery with 150k of raspberries.
Throughout the 1970s and 1980s the brewery sourced raspberries from within the Pajottenland from a farm near the small village of Liederkerke. Harvested in July, the farmer would hire a group of students to come to the farm and pick the berries to fill buckets full of 20 kilograms at a time. Jean-Pierre notes that the farmer would “weigh them to nearest gram” ( Van Roy, 2016a) and that due to Belgium’s rainy summer climate, the buckets would also be filled with quite a bit of water.
As tends to be the case with raspberries and beer, it can become quite sour and it was relatively weather dependent as to weather the harvest was acidic or sweet. Jean-Pierre recalls that “customers would be very critical when the raspberries used were of lower quality” (2016a). That is not to say, however, that the beer was unpopular. Van Roy (2016a) recalls a time when over 600 bottles raspberry lambic were opened over three days at the Francs-Bourgeois festival.
The approximate timeframe for the addition of vanilla is unknown but it is credited to a friend of the brewery named Guy Derdelinckx. According to Van Roy, “one day Guy suggested I try a new aperitif, whereupon he reached into the refrigerator and took out a bottle of raspberry lambic containing a pod of vanilla. When I tasted it I was pleasantly surprised because it turned out that the vanilla flavor really offset the beer’s excessive tartness. Guy had had a stroke of genius and thanks to him I was able to naturally soften the somewhat rough character of certain vintages” (2016a.)
In addition to using vanilla to cut down on the acidity, at one point a customer of the brewery named Paul Coorevits came up with a drink called the ‘Brussels Kir’ which was “Cantillon raspberry lambic in a flute glass mixed with a bit of strawberry liqueur” that not only would “bring down the tartness, it also enhanced the beer’s colour (Van Roy, 2016a).
In the 1970s ad 1980s, raspberry lambic was much more pale than we are accustomed to today. To enhance the color, Jean-Pierre mixed the raspberry lambic “with a certain portion of kriek” along with a small portion of vanilla(2016a) as evidenced on the pink Famboise Cantillon label. This color ended up being the inspiration for what we now know today as Rosé de Gambrinus (2016a), but the name did not come from the Van Roy family. An artistic friendship would eventually lead to the renaming and relabeling of this beer.
The history of the famous label for Rosé de Gambrinus dates back to 1980 when Jean-Pierre Van Roy suggested to Belgian watercolorist Albert Borret that “he get together a few artists and organise an exhibition at the brewery to celebrate the second anniversary of the Brussels Gueuze Museum” (2016b). A total of eight painters and two sculptors attended this exhibition, two of whom were Raymond Goffin and Raymond Coumans who were close friends. Because of the brewery’s financial situation at the time and because the museum society was not as well established as it is today, both Goffin and Coumans offered to produce three drawings each to be put up for sale by the museum society.
The friendship struck up among the brewery and Coumans would eventually lead to Coumans inspiring the name of the beer and producing its famous label. In 1985, Jean-Pierre was in the cellars of Cantillon drawing Framboise Lambic from the barrels to be put into the bottling tank. Coumans entered the cellar and was “marveling at the colour of the raspberry lambic coming out of the barrel” ( Van Roy 2016b) and into the copper buckets.
Jean-Pierre Van Roy (2016b) outlines the following exchange:
- “Jean-Pierre, this beer has the clour of onion skin. You have to call it “Rosé’”, he told me.
- “But Ryamond, that’s a name used for wine!”
Then, in a very formal manner he said, “it will be called Rosé de Gambrinus and I’ll make the label for you.”
The label depicts King Gambrinus, modeled on the mythical German king Gambrivius, who is said to have learned the craft of brewing from the Egyptian gods Isis and Osiris. Gambrinus is credited in European lore with having invented beer, and he is cited in English, British, German, and Belgian drinking lore as well (Birmingham, 1970, p. 36). On the label, one can see King Gambrinus seated in a garden with a naked woman seated on his lap. This woman “is holding a goblet of beer in her left hand and will give it to her attentive escort if he is worthy of what is about to happen” (Van Roy, 2016b).
This label and name was first put on bottles of Cantillon raspberry lambic in 1986. Staring in 1990, Brasserie Cantillon began working with Wide World Imports Inc to export their beer to the United States. Unsurprisingly, the original label for Rosé de Gambrinus was unsuitable for shelves in the United States and thus needed to be reworked for federal approval. Maruice Coja, head of the U.S. import company, sent back a proposed label on which he had clothed the woman on the label in a black bra and mini-skirt. Upon seeing the reworked label the original artist, Coumans, remarked: “Tell the Yank where he can put his suggestion, and also tell him that I’ll draw the woman’s clothes on myself” (Van Roy, 2016b).
Coumans came back with reworked at covering the woman up in a long blue dress noting that “the young lady is wearing a light blue dress. But most importantly, and the Americans need to know this, underneath the dress she’s in the buff”. (Van Roy, 2016b). At the time, even Playboy magazine featured a story on it. When Shelton Brothers took over the import duties in 1996 the labels were then switched back to the original undressed woman.
Birmingham, Frederic-Alexander. (1970). Falstaff’s Complete Beer Beer Book. Ward Books. New York, NY
Van Roy, Jean-Pierre. (2016a). Grummelinkse – June 2016. Musée Bruxellois de la Gueuze. Brussels, BE.
Van Roy, Jean-Pierre. (2016b). Grummelinkse – September 2016. Musée Bruxellois de la Gueuze. Brussels, BE.
Learn more at Lambic.Info
Might have to tap into MordorMongo's extensive backlogged Playboy collection to find that article.
Also tosh INRAT
That's a shit load more interesting than "I dunno, it's red and like, it doesn't have sugar". Is that going up online anywhere (that isn't here) so I can direct people to it?
What bugged me about her piece was ignoring that Cantillon have Kriek named Kriek which contradicts her reasoning. It all entirely seems made up. Disappointing for someone in the industry and studying their Cicerone (but in line with the limited actual knowledge I see from a lot of certified cicerones0.
TLDR; i feel like drinking some raspberry lambic
I heard it was all the same, you should be able to get this easy enough
This is the clear winner in the raspberry lambic category.
Yeah, I'm currently incorporating it into both the Gam and the Framboise page on the site. Then I'm going to tweet it at her.
I usually wouldn't bother but she's just flat out making stuff up (or at least not citing her sources).
Fuck that, if you're going to go for Chapeau, you go for that banana lambic. So good.