Stout without Roast Barley (only choco malt)

[PDXAmbassador1]

Questions for y'all:

(1) Has anyone made a stout using all chocolate / carafa malts. and NO roast barley?

(2) Any guesses what the flavor profile would be? I'm going for more chocolate, and less coffee/roast...

(3) Here's a recipe I'm considering making, if you wanna give feedback:

Malt Bill
15 lb Pale Ale Malt - 3.5°L
5 lb Dark Munich Malt - 20L
0.75 lb Carafa III - 525L
0.75 lb Carafa I - 337L
0.75 lb Chocolate, Pale – 215°L
1 lb Caramel - 45L

Size 5-gallon
O.G. 1.115
F.G. 1.035
ABV 12%
IBU 50 (bittering at 120 minutes w/German Magnum)
SRM 60 L
Yeast: 50/50 mix of British & clean american strains

Probably will add some light-roasted cocoa nibs, a vanilla bean, maybe touch of bourbon oak. Going for chocolatey flavor.

 

[harrymel1]

ITS A PORTER!!!

Should be fine. Enjoy!

 

[Snarf1]

ITS A PORTER!!!

Should be fine. Enjoy!

Yet again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Snarf!

 

[harrymel1]

Yet again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Snarf!

Not true

 

[hornydevil]

ITS A PORTER

Yeah . . . what you got there is a porter, son.

 

[More Betterness]

Echoing those above, that's looking awful Imperial Porter-like IMO!

 

[PDXAmbassador1]

ITS A PORTER!!!

Should be fine. Enjoy!

Yeah . . . what you got there is a porter, son.

Echoing those above, that's looking awful Imperial Porter-like IMO!

Haha I am aware that according to some folks, technically a stout includes roast barley, a porter doesn't....

But I saw a couple years ago a "porter" with only 2lb dark chocolate malt and I roast barley, won awards in the Russian Imperial Stout category at NHC! Apparently the difference in flavors can be indecipherable? I just haven't been able to find what the differences are!

If using dark chocolate malts in place of roast barley, could it be possibly have a profile that's more chocolatey (more "American double stout") and less coffee (less "RIS"-like)? Or do you think that it'd be missing something critical in the flavor profile? In which case I can switch out the Carafa 3 for roast barley.

These huge beers are expensive and time-intensive (especially for my little BIAB setup) so I appreciate help before I go for it!

 

[dimensionx]

If you really want a chocolate bomb then a chocolate adjunct might be the way to go. I know that Rogue uses a syrup in their chocolate beers and that seems to work well. Might make it easier to deal with for your BIAB set up.

I typically try to "blend" my malt flavors a little bit, which, in my mind, makes for a smoother flavor. So instead of using 1lb of Crystal 60 I'll use some 30 and 60 to get a similar effect. Though you probably won't taste it in this beer. I also like to add a tiny bit of Special B (an ounce or two) which can add a slight "plum flavor" to help smooth out a strong acrid/burnt flavor from all of your dark malts.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

Without some roasted barley to give it some roasted flavor it's going to taste like what people consider a porter rather than a stout. That's not necessarily bad; it just depends on what flavors you want in the beer.

If you want more of a chocolate flavor and less aggressive roast I would opt for a combination of roasted barley, chocolate malt, chocolate wheat (which is the closest to chocolate any grain tastes IMO) and a chocolate adjunct.

You also want to watch your water profile to avoid too much calcium and keep a relatively high ph. Chocolate malt plus too much calcium plus a low ph is a recipe for an ashy stout. I'd target 5.4-5.5 ph, chloride over sulfate and only enough calcium to hit ph. That will avoid ashiness and also bring out the sweeter flavors in the roasted grain over the harsher roast element.

 

[PDXAmbassador1]

dimensionx thanks brother! I have some caramel malts in the 120-160 range I could use a bit, like you use Special B. And I do have a Cara 20 and Cara 55 I think, might be better than all Cara 45? I may make some grain teas to taste the diff.

reverseapachemaster thanks for this good info. I will indeed add some fun artisan roasted cocoa nibs I happen to have on hand, to bring out the cocoa aromas, as well as a hint of vanilla bean.

And I will go easy on the Baking Soda in the Mash (think a 1/4 tsp maybe would be right?).

For better or worse, I only have access to spring water, with unknown calcium content. That being the case, think I should add a bit of calcium chloride to hedge my bets?

 

[rcubed1]

Seems like a lot of Carafa. Try using some midnight wheat in there if you are looking for color. Also I'm a fan of doing a blend of chocolate and pale chocolate malts.

 

[hornydevil]

If you really want a chocolate bomb then a chocolate adjunct might be the way to go. I know that Rogue uses a syrup in their chocolate beers and that seems to work well. Might make it easier to deal with for your BIAB set up.

I use this and/or cocoa powder with very good results:

You can find it at most groceries.