The cider thread

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I joined the hb club in Asheville last year because they do a big cider pressing. I got 15 gallons last year and split it three ways. Two batches got campden - one Nottingham and one Wyeast Sweet. I had to repitch both after a few days and the end product sucked. The batch I let ferment on it's own eventually got pretty good, but it was very 'assy' for months.

This year, I'm hoping for 15 gallons again, but I'm going to let it all ferment on it's own. I'm hoping racking off the lees several times will help with the stank factor.
 
TNGabe said:
I joined the hb club in Asheville last year because they do a big cider pressing. I got 15 gallons last year and split it three ways. Two batches got campden - one Nottingham and one Wyeast Sweet. I had to repitch both after a few days and the end product sucked. The batch I let ferment on it's own eventually got pretty good, but it was very 'assy' for months.

This year, I'm hoping for 15 gallons again, but I'm going to let it all ferment on it's own. I'm hoping racking off the lees several times will help with the stank factor.
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Be careful with the racking. I'd highly recommend purging your vessels with C02 and racking very slowly. You can drive off a lot of aroma if you splash and oxidize.
 
JoeLikesBeer said:
Be careful with the racking. I'd highly recommend purging your vessels with C02 and racking very slowly. You can drive off a lot of aroma if you splash and oxidize.
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Excellent point. I was too lazy to type that, but I've already been warned about oxidization by a friend who makes cider every year.
 
Last edited:
My friend Chris Banker gave a great talk on making cider from juice (i.e. not fresh pressed) at last year's NHC. Check out his presentation on the AHA website.
 
rcubed said:
My friend Chris Banker gave a great talk on making cider from juice (i.e. not fresh pressed) at last year's NHC. Check out his presentation on the AHA website.
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Nice. I'll give that a look. I used to make pretty good cider back in the day with a jug of unfiltered cider like the kind you usually see around harvest/late fall in milk jugs, or R.W. Knudsen brand in the glass jug.

Easy method - have the yeast and airlock ready.

1. Open jug
2. Pour out about half a cup of cider and drink it! (not from the jug tho)
3. Pitch half a packet of dry yeast
4. Wait until activity stops, recap, and put in the fridge immediately.

You end up with all the yeast settled at the bottom so you could rack if you wanted, but I used to just pour carefully from the jug into glasses. It ends up lightly sparkling, not fully carbonated.

These days I crave that big fruity aroma from unpasteurized fresh press. You just can't get that with pasteurized juice. The complexity still isn't there with most ciders too. Someday we'll have some real cider apple acreage in this country. We're just making compromises until then.
 
Just bottled my first cider. Whole Foods unfiltered apple juice and champagne yeast. Super easy and quite tasty. I'm planning to use Dupont Cidre dregs for my next batch.

Z00T5kP.jpg
 
Any idea how many gallons I can feasibly get from a bushel of whole apples? Would it be a better idea to grab some local pasteurized cider for my first go round? Shanks brother-men
 
Kirkse said:
Just bottled my first cider. Whole Foods unfiltered apple juice and champagne yeast. Super easy and quite tasty. I'm planning to use Dupont Cidre dregs for my next batch.

Z00T5kP.jpg
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How long do you let it ferment?
 
Skittle34 said:
Any idea how many gallons I can feasibly get from a bushel of whole apples? Would it be a better idea to grab some local pasteurized cider for my first go round? Shanks brother-men
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I have heard two bushels yields about 5 gallons so you should be able to get ~2.5 out of your single bushel. Do you have access to a press? If you do I say go for it.
 
I just started my first cider of the season. I picked up 3 gallons of unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. Heated it on the stove to ~185F (don’t let it boil) and let it sit for a little while to kill all the wild yeast/bugs. Rehydrated some Nottingham dry yeast and gave it some yeast nutrient to get it kicking before pitching it into the cider. Don’t just pitch dry yeast directly into the cider, especially if you’re doing a full 5 gallon batch. It will work but the yeast are going to be stressed which will lead to an inferior product (off flavors). They’re already pissed that someone dried them out and put them in a little package with no food for an extended amount of time. Plus it doesn’t take much to rehydrate them and toss them some nutrient. I plan on picking up 4 more gallons with 3 getting Saison yeast and 1 fermenting with its own wild yeast. I treat the cider like beer when fermenting. After pitching the yeast shake the carboy vigorously for a few minutes to get oxygen in the cider for the yeast. After that do the normal stuff to keep oxygen out (bung and air lock). 1 month ferment, can rack into secondary halfway through if you’re worried about the lees giving it a bitter taste. I’ve never had a problem with this in beer so I don’t typically rack to secondary. Bottle condition for 2 weeks minimum. Boom, just in time for Thanksgiving. It’s a lot easier than all-grain brewing.
 
JohnfromPurdue said:
I just started my first cider of the season. I picked up 3 gallons of unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. Heated it on the stove to ~185F (don’t let it boil) and let it sit for a little while to kill all the wild yeast/bugs. Rehydrated some Nottingham dry yeast and gave it some yeast nutrient to get it kicking before pitching it into the cider. Don’t just pitch dry yeast directly into the cider, especially if you’re doing a full 5 gallon batch. It will work but the yeast are going to be stressed which will lead to an inferior product (off flavors). They’re already pissed that someone dried them out and put them in a little package with no food for an extended amount of time. Plus it doesn’t take much to rehydrate them and toss them some nutrient. I plan on picking up 4 more gallons with 3 getting Saison yeast and 1 fermenting with its own wild yeast. I treat the cider like beer when fermenting. After pitching the yeast shake the carboy vigorously for a few minutes to get oxygen in the cider for the yeast. After that do the normal stuff to keep oxygen out (bung and air lock). 1 month ferment, can rack into secondary halfway through if you’re worried about the lees giving it a bitter taste. I’ve never had a problem with this in beer so I don’t typically rack to secondary. Bottle condition for 2 weeks minimum. Boom, just in time for Thanksgiving. It’s a lot easier than all-grain brewing.
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I need to give this a try. Why saison yeast? What are the benefits?
 
FTowne said:
I need to give this a try. Why saison yeast? What are the benefits?
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Two reasons. First, I love saisons. Second, ciders are tricky to keep from getting extremely dry while bottle conditioning. While saisons are dry, the Dupont yeast strain is notorious for getting stuck in fermentation and that is what I'm banking on. I also haven't seen anyone do it so I want to see how it will turn out.
 
rcubed said:
My friend Chris Banker gave a great talk on making cider from juice (i.e. not fresh pressed) at last year's NHC. Check out his presentation on the AHA website.
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I sat in on one of his seminars last year. Seemed like a nice enough guy but I wasn't impressed by what he had to say or by the ciders he served. Store bought juice ciders fermented with beer yeast simply don't compare to fresh pressed ciders (when the pressing are the correct varietals) fermented with white wine or cider yeast IMHO. The best hard cider comes from tart, tannic, bitter apple varietals that aren't the kind used in making store bought apple juice. Not sure if he really believed what he was claiming, or if he was just trying to make hard cider making seem more approachable though.....
 
I've been making hard cider for the past five years as a seasonal diversion from brewing. It has taught me more about focusing on yeast selection and fermentation techniques due to the fact that one doesn't actually "brew" a cider. The comment above is very true about the vast difference between store bought apple juice and cider-specific varietal apple must that comes from a cider mill. It's similar to the difference between wine grapes and table grapes. You can't come close to the flavor and complexity with the usual apple juice and you probably won't be making the alcohol-pop Woodchuck or Strongbow sweet ciders with the acidic and tannic varieties.
 
Skittle34 said:
Go on...
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Well, not much to go on about, but that needn't stop me from rambling a bit. I know that it's usually ok to plant trees here this time of year, but it's also not usually 15 degree lows, so I need to find out if I can actually plant now or if I have to wait until spring. My wife knows I go overboard so she has said 10 trees knowing that I'll probably get 20. I did end up with 4 pigs for a while so I'm banking on a few extra trees not seeming bad in comparison.

There is a guy about a half hour from here with a small nursery orchard and he grows mostly old time Virginia varieties. He doesn't have a lot of cider varieties, but the one's I'm thinking I'll plant a few each of are Bramley's Seedling, Grimes Golden, Hewes Crab, and Red Streak. I think the first two are multi-use and the Hewes and Red Streak are both 'true' cider apples. Other ones I might try one each of are Ashmead's Kernel, Black Limbertwig, Calville Blanc, Goldrush, Horse, Hyslop Crab, and Mother.

Once I find out what he has for sale and what rootstock it's on, I'll know what sort of spacing I need, dig some holes, put some trees in the holes, and wait.
 
Skittle34 said:
That's pretty ****ing awesome. I also like the fact that you own pigs haha, did you ever butcher them or did you become too attached?
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Attached? Hahaha.

No pigs right now, had too much pork and they're a pita. Will probably get a goat or maybe two in the spring to get some weeds under control and because goat is tasty.
 
Steve said:
Anyone ever try a 100% Brett cider?

Also I was stalking degardebrewing a bit and saw he was checking out this thread. :)
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Haha.
We're looking into getting the requisite winery license to start making some old school cider. Oak fermented and aged.
Enjoy the banter on here. :)
Visiting family, and a respite was needed.
 
degardebrewing said:
Haha.
We're looking into getting the requisite winery license to start making some old school cider. Oak fermented and aged.
Enjoy the banter on here. :)
Visiting family, and a respite was needed.
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Let us know if you need any guinea pigs! ;)

Been trying to think of whether there's any Florida grown fruits specifically I could get fresh pressed, unpasteurized to get that natural-skin yeast cider. I'll have to do some research.
 
TNGabe said:
Talk dirty to me about keeving please.
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Not much dirty to say...
we liked the result of running juice through freshly emptied two year lambic inspired barrels. Thinking we'll schedule production around that. Run through coolship first to ensure at least a small viable sacch population. Many trials ahead though!

It seems (as best I could understand), that some of our favorite Basque ciders were picking up their funk from the pretty crazy foeders. First trial seems to bear that as practical...
 
degardebrewing said:
Not much dirty to say...
we liked the result of running juice through freshly emptied two year lambic inspired barrels. Thinking we'll schedule production around that. Run through coolship first to ensure at least a small viable sacch population. Many trials ahead though!

It seems (as best I could understand), that some of our favorite Basque ciders were picking up their funk from the pretty crazy foeders. First trial seems to bear that as practical...
Click to expand...

Can you get actual cider apples in sufficient quantities or will you be working with dessert apples?
 
TNGabe said:
Can you get actual cider apples in sufficient quantities or will you be working with dessert apples?
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Theres a mixed selection. Any significant quantity will be difficult, but the farmer that takes our spent grain has offered to plant what we'd like.
I dont think itll be a huge production, but a fun diversion.
The Newtown Pippin juice has produced some fun results too though.
 
drgarage said:
I made a cider using the ECY Brasserie (Fantome) cultures. Came out beautifully. Much cleaner than a Fantome saison, just really crisp, crazy dry and a tad funky. Probably the easiest to make fermented beverage of my homebrewing career.
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That sounds delicious. Recipe, please.
 

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