X-box dimensions

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kscaldef

kscaldef

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In my ongoing cellar build-out, I'm thinking I probably want to construct some x-boxes for bulk lambic storage (i.e. the stuff I want to buy by the case or more and age for 10 years). I'm curious if anyone has figured out ideal dimensions for these for lambic (champagne) bottles. It seems like most of the pre-fab ones are designed for bordeaux style wine bottles. I could just start doing some math / CAD / plywood prototyping, but I'm wondering if anyone else has already worked this out.
 
So, I built a prototype this afternoon with some excess 1/2" plywood I had laying around. The good news it, it was pretty simple (if you have a table saw and a router). The bad news is, I think it's probably not a viable solution for this bottle shape.

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So, this is a 24" exterior, 23" interior square. The diagonals are 32".

The problem in operation is that while the side triangle will fit 10 bottles in a pretty stable configuration, the bottom section is hopeless for more than 7, and the top could fit 10, but the stability is pretty iffy. There were some pretty scary moments when I thought I was about to lose 6 bottles of lambic in a horrible disaster. I'd had some hope I might be able to do the alternative thing that you see the lambic producers do in their cellars, but I could manage to keep that stable either.

So, oh, well... guess I'm back to just doing standard single-slot racks.
 
I suck at math and anything related to building things... so I'm going to need someone to explain how you can only get 7 in the bottom?

Related: could you put 10 in the side and then flip it over? (try it and film it)
 
LukeAleTime said:
I suck at math and anything related to building things... so I'm going to need someone to explain how you can only get 7 in the bottom?
Click to expand...

It's an issue of stability, not how many can physically fit (and that circles really want to pack at 60deg angles, not 45). If you look at the photo, you can see that on the bottom there's 5 bottles across, but on the side only 4. On the side, those bottles aren't touching, but gravity holds things firmly into the corner regardless. On the bottom, you can fit 5 across, but you can't actually stack 4 above them because of the angles of the cross boards, only 2. And you can't stably balance another bottle on those two. If you try to replicate the side configuration, just rotated, and remove one of the 5 bottles, and try to stack 3 above them, again it's not stable (and I'm really amazed I didn't break any bottles trying).
 
kscaldef said:
Looks like straight-sided Bordeaux/Cab bottles for the most part, yes?
Click to expand...

looks like it. seriously **** champagne bottles. starting to think the only way is really just having individual slots for each bottle, they do not like stacking (unless multiple layers like @ a brewery).
 
You're not saving that much space with stacking vs racks if you don't want to alternate their orientation like at a brewery. If you wanted to store N bottles in an X-rack vs racks like mine your best-case scenario is probably something like half the space, but unless you're trying to store hundreds of bottles that way that's actually only a few feet of floor space, and compared to the more standard (but less modular/earthquake-resistant) racks the gain is probably something like 10-20%.

If I lived in a seismically inactive state I'd build racks that look basically like what oldp0rt did here, although with those pictures seem to be down...
 
stupac2 said:
You're not saving that much space with stacking vs racks if you don't want to alternate their orientation like at a brewery. If you wanted to store N bottles in an X-rack vs racks like mine your best-case scenario is probably something like half the space, but unless you're trying to store hundreds of bottles that way that's actually only a few feet of floor space, and compared to the more standard (but less modular/earthquake-resistant) racks the gain is probably something like 10-20%.

If I lived in a seismically inactive state I'd build racks that look basically like what oldp0rt did here, although with those pictures seem to be down...
Click to expand...
definitely agree, not saving much space at all.

It might save a couple dozen hours in the shop, though. X-boxes are easy, individual racks (or wine-style racking like oldp0rt which is really my favorite) are just more work. Worth it i think, just haven't had time to do it properly yet.
 
stupac2 said:
You're not saving that much space with stacking vs racks if you don't want to alternate their orientation like at a brewery. If you wanted to store N bottles in an X-rack vs racks like mine your best-case scenario is probably something like half the space, but unless you're trying to store hundreds of bottles that way that's actually only a few feet of floor space, and compared to the more standard (but less modular/earthquake-resistant) racks the gain is probably something like 10-20%.

If I lived in a seismically inactive state I'd build racks that look basically like what oldp0rt did here, although with those pictures seem to be down...
Click to expand...
thanks for the tag, I'll repost them. don't know what happened there
 
ridglens said:
definitely agree, not saving much space at all.

It might save a couple dozen hours in the shop, though. X-boxes are easy, individual racks (or wine-style racking like oldp0rt which is really my favorite) are just more work. Worth it i think, just haven't had time to do it properly yet.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it could, that's certainly many fewer pieces. But at the same time the other racks aren't that hard, and with a decent miter/table saw you could probably bang out a few hundred bottles worth of storage in quick order.

Thinking about it, I might replace my racks with something like that with cabinet doors if I ever get good enough at woodworking. I like an actual cabinet better than what I have, and being able to make it double-deep if you want is a good bonus.
 
stupac2 said:
Yeah, it could, that's certainly many fewer pieces. But at the same time the other racks aren't that hard, and with a decent miter/table saw you could probably bang out a few hundred bottles worth of storage in quick order.

Thinking about it, I might replace my racks with something like that with cabinet doors if I ever get good enough at woodworking. I like an actual cabinet better than what I have, and being able to make it double-deep if you want is a good bonus.
Click to expand...
agreed. i think i'm going to try and build some close to yours soon, but i'll just do the front part that holds the neck and have the backs of the bottle just sit on a shelf or in a L-shaped cradle. necks seem to be mostly similar size, after that bottle geometry can get funky.
for the front i'll probably just drill a line of neck-ish size holes in a 1x6 or so, then rip the thing in half on the table saw... they will be nearly half circles, and i'll get 2 shelves out of one board... could be pretty quick.
 
ridglens said:
agreed. i think i'm going to try and build some close to yours soon, but i'll just do the front part that holds the neck and have the backs of the bottle just sit on a shelf or in a L-shaped cradle. necks seem to be mostly similar size, after that bottle geometry can get funky.
for the front i'll probably just drill a line of neck-ish size holes in a 1x6 or so, then rip the thing in half on the table saw... they will be nearly half circles, and i'll get 2 shelves out of one board... could be pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind you need a way to get bottles in/out. If you only drill the small hole you'll need a bigger board separating them and that could mean fewer bottles per height. (Cutting a 2x6 in half gives you about the same size boards as mine, so you'd need a lot of spare space for that setup.)
 
stupac2 said:
Keep in mind you need a way to get bottles in/out. If you only drill the small hole you'll need a bigger board separating them and that could mean fewer bottles per height. (Cutting a 2x6 in half gives you about the same size boards as mine, so you'd need a lot of spare space for that setup.)
Click to expand...

you mean above the bottles so i can fit them (and my fat hand/arm) in between the shelves to lay them down?
 
stupac2 said:
Exactly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it will have to be (i guess) minimum a bottle OD clearance before the next shelf starts... that's not too bad, 4 in ish. so maybe 6 in or so/shelf, looking at plenty before I get taller than about 4 ft.
 

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