Hill Farmstead Saison

Help Support Talkbeer:

Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
1,250
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Question is really, is it just isoalphas or alpha, myrcene, humulene etc. that get extracted at lower temps throughout the cooling process?
It's "hop related compounds" in general. You can achieve inhibition of (some) bacterial growth without boiling your hops/isomerizing alpha acids.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
1,250
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
C2C and TYB 184 took my saison down to 1.001 when I mashed the same temp as last time which ended up at 1.005. Bumped the ABV north of 7 but tastes fantastic! Give me a few months of bottle conditioning and I'm ready to send out a few bottles if some of you are still interested in a swap!
FWIW, you could have bumped your FG up a little if you wanted to by adding lactose, as I think both of those Brett strains are lactose negative. Not that you'd want to do that, but it's just a heads-up for future reference.

How many volumes of CO2?
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,579
Location
Orange County
FWIW, you could have bumped your FG up a little if you wanted to by adding lactose, as I think both of those Brett strains are lactose negative. Not that you'd want to do that, but it's just a heads-up for future reference.

How many volumes of CO2?
I don't actually mind how dry it is! Tart and dry with the tropical fruit character that 184 throws is right in my wheelhouse! Also the perceived body is much fuller than the FG would lead one to believe.

Haven't primed yet as I was planning on bottling Wednesday. Transferred it into a flushed keg and will bottle with a beer gun. Probably aiming for 3 volumes or so but haven't fully decided.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
1,250
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I don't actually mind how dry it is! Tart and dry with the tropical fruit character that 184 throws is right in my wheelhouse! Also the perceived body is much fuller than the FG would lead one to believe.
Nice.

Haven't primed yet as I was planning on bottling Wednesday. Transferred it into a flushed keg and will bottle with a beer gun. Probably aiming for 3 volumes or so but haven't fully decided.
Thick 750s? If so, might I be so bold as to recommend 3.5- 4 with that low of an FG?
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
56
Location
Massachusetts
Thinking of brewing a few gallons of honey saison soon and copitching 3726 and TYB184. Potentially dumb question as I've never tried a mixed fermentation before: would pitching a small amount of sour dregs in secondary (Cantillon Classic Geuze or RdG) be likely to result in a mostly sour beer, or would keeping the pitch very small enable getting subtle characteristics of that funk and tartness without overwhelming the primary yeast flavors?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
531
Location
Frisco
Thinking of brewing a few gallons of honey saison soon and copitching 3726 and TYB184. Potentially dumb question as I've never tried a mixed fermentation before: would pitching a small amount of sour dregs in secondary (Cantillon Classic Geuze or RdG) be likely to result in a mostly sour beer, or would keeping the pitch very small enable getting subtle characteristics of that funk and tartness without overwhelming the primary yeast flavors?
Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.
 

drgarage

Not a real doctor. Lives in garage.
Contributor
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
30,617
Location
Fran Sanfrisfro!
Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.
You can also hop pretty heavily to inhibit the bacteria.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
975
Location
MD
Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.

So a larger pitch of Brett decreases funk? I'm not one who loves straight barnyard funk in my beer.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
4,378
Location
The Misty Mountains
So a larger pitch of Brett decreases funk? I'm not one who loves straight barnyard funk in my beer.
Yes, large pitch of Brett in primary and it will be pretty close to a sacc fermentation. Most of what we think of as "bretty" flavors are Brett metabolizing byproducts if fermentation (i.e. Esters from saison yeast getting turned into funk).
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
975
Location
MD
Yes, large pitch of Brett in primary and it will be pretty close to a sacc fermentation. Most of what we think of as "bretty" flavors are Brett metabolizing byproducts if fermentation (i.e. Esters from saison yeast getting turned into funk).
So to achieve something with such balance as HF, what all do you pitch and when?
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
1,004
Location
Lombard, Illinois
So to achieve something with such balance as HF, what all do you pitch and when?
Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,579
Location
Orange County
Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.
^This.

Starter of Omega Yeast C2C and TYB 184 copitched with a tick of lacto produced very HF like results for me. TYB 184 is straight musty tropical fruit. 5.2 mash pH and softer water in saisons FTW!
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
1,004
Location
Lombard, Illinois
^This.

Starter of Omega Yeast C2C and TYB 184 copitched with a tick of lacto produced very HF like results for me. TYB 184 is straight musty tropical fruit. 5.2 mash pH and softer water in saisons FTW!
For these I like chloride higher than sulfate but nothing too high. Chloride around 100ppm, sulfate at 70 or so ppm, and sodium up to 40-50ppm.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,579
Location
Orange County
So HF inspired saison I've mentioned above (Omega C2C, TYB 184, Lacto brevis) that has had no off flavors to speak of as of two weeks ago after 6 months of aging and ~3 additional months bottle conditioning has now developed a relatively offputting aroma. Would lean towards butyric as it is slightly "bile-y" but not totally sure and didn't think butyric came to the party this late. Solely present in the aroma, I get none of it in the taste. Could just be something getting weird under pressure in the bottle and may need to just let it work itself out, but it's really pissing me off! Any thoughts?
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,579
Location
Orange County
Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.
What pH you usually aim for in these?
 

Latest posts

Top