Lee Ellis, Midnight Sun

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Let's get this started!

Msbc Brewer this is your thread!
Thanks for the Thread! I will use it wisely...

First and foremost, I 'd like to answer the "Why is M so tight?" I assume you are using early millennial vernacular to say it's totally awesome. To be honest, on my long commute home to my small shack in the mountains, I often ask myself that very same question. I believe there are three parts to that answer. One; when M was made, it was an expansion on the flavor threshold of what a beer could be. To be honest, I think that there is a huge difference between the beers that were being made in the mid 2000's and what is being crafted today. I think an M being released today would still be amazing, but the ability to wow craft drinkers has become much more difficult. Second; Malt bill. A lot of folks are trying to figure out what kind of crazy ingredients we can stuff into a beer (myself included), but nothing quite beats a well crafted malt bill that utilizes the best malts available. Third; Good Oak. Every barrel is different. Re-creating any barrel aged beer can be a huge challenge. Every year is a vintage with barrel aged beers that are released annually.

With that said, I'll answer Johnnyhitch1 with an unlikely answer. I was visiting Missoula, MT back in 2005 and had my first barrel aged barley wine from a small experiment that Big Sky Brewing was doing. I had been a craft brewer for three years and had never drank anything like it. Imagine a doll in my hands, now I'm using a finger to point the area from the toes up to the head. That's where barrel aged beer touched me and I liked it. When I moved to Alaska in 2007, MSBC blew my mind, so much so that I waited 6 months for a job. I learned a lot about barrels from Gabe Fletcher and Ben Johnson.
 
Thanks for the Thread! I will use it wisely...

First and foremost, I 'd like to answer the "Why is M so tight?" I assume you are using early millennial vernacular to say it's totally awesome. To be honest, on my long commute home to my small shack in the mountains, I often ask myself that very same question. I believe there are three parts to that answer. One; when M was made, it was an expansion on the flavor threshold of what a beer could be. To be honest, I think that there is a huge difference between the beers that were being made in the mid 2000's and what is being crafted today. I think an M being released today would still be amazing, but the ability to wow craft drinkers has become much more difficult. Second; Malt bill. A lot of folks are trying to figure out what kind of crazy ingredients we can stuff into a beer (myself included), but nothing quite beats a well crafted malt bill that utilizes the best malts available. Third; Good Oak. Every barrel is different. Re-creating any barrel aged beer can be a huge challenge. Every year is a vintage with barrel aged beers that are released annually.

With that said, I'll answer Johnnyhitch1 with an unlikely answer. I was visiting Missoula, MT back in 2005 and had my first barrel aged barley wine from a small experiment that Big Sky Brewing was doing. I had been a craft brewer for three years and had never drank anything like it. Imagine a doll in my hands, now I'm using a finger to point the area from the toes up to the head. That's where barrel aged beer touched me and I liked it. When I moved to Alaska in 2007, MSBC blew my mind, so much so that I waited 6 months for a job. I learned a lot about barrels from Gabe Fletcher and Ben Johnson.
I've never had the M, but any chance it could be remade (as close as possible at least)?
 
Could you lay out some of the logistical challenges you face brewing in Alaska?
Hahahaha! Wow, how to answer that question... All of it. It's all a big pain in the ass. I can start by breaking down our logistics chain. There are four routes for how things can arrive in Alaska. Steamship, Barge, Over-the-Road, and by air. Steamship (which sounds like an old sternwheeler driven by a bearded man holding a corn cob pipe) is the fastest way to get bulk materials to Alaska. It takes about 3-5 days from Seattle depending on the weather in the gulf. It costs about 50% more that the Barge, something like $7000 for 40k pounds of malt, Seattle to Anchorage. Over the road costs about the same, and takes a day or two longer. We don't usually ship this method because the loads have to clear customs twice and trucks breakdown a lot on roads that are -20 to -40 degrees F. Barge is the slowest, cheapest, and preferred method. 10-17 days from Seattle and it runs once a week. Air Shipping is last resort. However, our Air Cargo gets here way faster than most other places in the country. ANC is the third busiest air cargo hub in the world and everything in Anchorage is 20 minutes from the airport. I have made emergency orders that left Indiana at 5pm CST and been at my door 8am AKST. Pretty crazy.

So that's how stuff gets here. Local supply is interesting. When I was a brewer in Seattle I could spend up to 4-5 hours a day driving around picking up parts and materials. Anchorage is the Hub of all Alaska, especially for the oil and gas industry. Nothing in Anchorage is more than a 20 minute drive from anywhere else in Anchorage. All the parts suppliers are in one 3 square mile area. I literally couldn't ask for a better set-up, except that no really stocks parts up here. Plenty of suppliers and they can all get it here tomorrow at the earliest.

We have a metric **** ton of water. So that part is easy. Oh, and a lot of Natural Gas too.

So the simple answer is: Plan Ahead. The biggest challenge is forecasting months ahead of time. Just to get extra boring I could talk about Inventory Critical Control Points, but you should get me drunk first. And then get yourself drunk too. Figure out what you need to thrive and order it 3-6 months before you need it. My biggest challenge used to be convincing the money controller that when we order stuff, we order more than what we immediately need. The owners get it now and have seen the benefits of not shutting down, then going to lunch for five hours and taking shots of Jame-o because everything is at a stand still waiting for a seal kit.

Then there is shipping Southbound. That stuff isn't cheap either. Which is ridiculous when you figure most those boats are empty going down. This is the part where I hurt people's feelings a lot. I have had to fire 2 different shipping companies in the last year due to losing pallets, screwing up billing, or just plain destroying pallets full of beer. The good part about this is I finally found a venue to utilize the skills I learned in the Marine Corps Infantry. Like making people aware that if they mess with my customers, I will personally come to their business and ruin their day.

I hope this answers some questions, feel free to ask more! But yeah, this topic is the majority cause of my moderate to heavy drinking.
 
Hahahaha! Wow, how to answer that question... All of it. It's all a big pain in the ass. I can start by breaking down our logistics chain. There are four routes for how things can arrive in Alaska. Steamship, Barge, Over-the-Road, and by air. Steamship (which sounds like an old sternwheeler driven by a bearded man holding a corn cob pipe) is the fastest way to get bulk materials to Alaska. It takes about 3-5 days from Seattle depending on the weather in the gulf. It costs about 50% more that the Barge, something like $7000 for 40k pounds of malt, Seattle to Anchorage. Over the road costs about the same, and takes a day or two longer. We don't usually ship this method because the loads have to clear customs twice and trucks breakdown a lot on roads that are -20 to -40 degrees F. Barge is the slowest, cheapest, and preferred method. 10-17 days from Seattle and it runs once a week. Air Shipping is last resort. However, our Air Cargo gets here way faster than most other places in the country. ANC is the third busiest air cargo hub in the world and everything in Anchorage is 20 minutes from the airport. I have made emergency orders that left Indiana at 5pm CST and been at my door 8am AKST. Pretty crazy.

So that's how stuff gets here. Local supply is interesting. When I was a brewer in Seattle I could spend up to 4-5 hours a day driving around picking up parts and materials. Anchorage is the Hub of all Alaska, especially for the oil and gas industry. Nothing in Anchorage is more than a 20 minute drive from anywhere else in Anchorage. All the parts suppliers are in one 3 square mile area. I literally couldn't ask for a better set-up, except that no really stocks parts up here. Plenty of suppliers and they can all get it here tomorrow at the earliest.

We have a metric **** ton of water. So that part is easy. Oh, and a lot of Natural Gas too.

So the simple answer is: Plan Ahead. The biggest challenge is forecasting months ahead of time. Just to get extra boring I could talk about Inventory Critical Control Points, but you should get me drunk first. And then get yourself drunk too. Figure out what you need to thrive and order it 3-6 months before you need it. My biggest challenge used to be convincing the money controller that when we order stuff, we order more than what we immediately need. The owners get it now and have seen the benefits of not shutting down, then going to lunch for five hours and taking shots of Jame-o because everything is at a stand still waiting for a seal kit.

Then there is shipping Southbound. That stuff isn't cheap either. Which is ridiculous when you figure most those boats are empty going down. This is the part where I hurt people's feelings a lot. I have had to fire 2 different shipping companies in the last year due to losing pallets, screwing up billing, or just plain destroying pallets full of beer. The good part about this is I finally found a venue to utilize the skills I learned in the Marine Corps Infantry. Like making people aware that if they mess with my customers, I will personally come to their business and ruin their day.

I hope this answers some questions, feel free to ask more! But yeah, this topic is the majority cause of my moderate to heavy drinking.
Hell of a post. Thanks.
 
Hmmm, I'll just say that if we did re-release it, we wouldn't call it M. It is impossible to re-create it exactly. While Gabe Fletcher was an amazing Brewer, he sure sucked at documentation.
You should give it a go. M is incredible and I want more stuff like it around.
 
As for more M, I'll say that Termination Dust is probably the closest re-creation we have done to date. Fairly similar malt bill, and very similar yeast blend. But again, it's kind one of those "that time, that place" beer. I love making big, dark, barrel aged belgians, stouts, and barley wines. Our Alaskan clientele demands it. As we say, session beers start at 8% up here.

As for freezing shipments, a little known fact about refer containers is that they also have heating elements inside them. They can control the temp inside to as low as -40F and as high as 120F. We pay a little extra in the winter for "KFF" loads. Again, we avoid over the road shipments due to trucks breaking down and losing the ability to power the container. It has happened before. At least on the ocean the temperature doesn't get much worse than +10F.

RyanG, the Mount Marathon event is a real party for sure! Oh and people have died on that race. Two years ago a gentleman was injured and disappeared never to be found. Apparently while he was awaiting a rescue, a bear found him and finished the job and that's no joke. Please do come to Alaska though, it's a wild place for sure. Last frontier is really the truth. I also think we have some amazing breweries up here. Of all the states I have traveled too, I feel like Alaska's breweries have the highest quantity of consistently great beers. It's hard to say which brewery I love best, but I'm never sorry I visit any of them.
 
This guy hearts Anchorage. I miss my trips up there. Never had the chance to visit MSBC. :(
edcea64f2463e2f088d67a101ff1dee3.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hahahaha! Wow, how to answer that question... All of it. It's all a big pain in the ass. I can start by breaking down our logistics chain. There are four routes for how things can arrive in Alaska. Steamship, Barge, Over-the-Road, and by air. Steamship (which sounds like an old sternwheeler driven by a bearded man holding a corn cob pipe) is the fastest way to get bulk materials to Alaska. It takes about 3-5 days from Seattle depending on the weather in the gulf. It costs about 50% more that the Barge, something like $7000 for 40k pounds of malt, Seattle to Anchorage. Over the road costs about the same, and takes a day or two longer. We don't usually ship this method because the loads have to clear customs twice and trucks breakdown a lot on roads that are -20 to -40 degrees F. Barge is the slowest, cheapest, and preferred method. 10-17 days from Seattle and it runs once a week. Air Shipping is last resort. However, our Air Cargo gets here way faster than most other places in the country. ANC is the third busiest air cargo hub in the world and everything in Anchorage is 20 minutes from the airport. I have made emergency orders that left Indiana at 5pm CST and been at my door 8am AKST. Pretty crazy.

So that's how stuff gets here. Local supply is interesting. When I was a brewer in Seattle I could spend up to 4-5 hours a day driving around picking up parts and materials. Anchorage is the Hub of all Alaska, especially for the oil and gas industry. Nothing in Anchorage is more than a 20 minute drive from anywhere else in Anchorage. All the parts suppliers are in one 3 square mile area. I literally couldn't ask for a better set-up, except that no really stocks parts up here. Plenty of suppliers and they can all get it here tomorrow at the earliest.

We have a metric **** ton of water. So that part is easy. Oh, and a lot of Natural Gas too.

So the simple answer is: Plan Ahead. The biggest challenge is forecasting months ahead of time. Just to get extra boring I could talk about Inventory Critical Control Points, but you should get me drunk first. And then get yourself drunk too. Figure out what you need to thrive and order it 3-6 months before you need it. My biggest challenge used to be convincing the money controller that when we order stuff, we order more than what we immediately need. The owners get it now and have seen the benefits of not shutting down, then going to lunch for five hours and taking shots of Jame-o because everything is at a stand still waiting for a seal kit.

Then there is shipping Southbound. That stuff isn't cheap either. Which is ridiculous when you figure most those boats are empty going down. This is the part where I hurt people's feelings a lot. I have had to fire 2 different shipping companies in the last year due to losing pallets, screwing up billing, or just plain destroying pallets full of beer. The good part about this is I finally found a venue to utilize the skills I learned in the Marine Corps Infantry. Like making people aware that if they mess with my customers, I will personally come to their business and ruin their day.

I hope this answers some questions, feel free to ask more! But yeah, this topic is the majority cause of my moderate to heavy drinking.


Nothing is cheap when it comes to shipping up there. FEDEX just robbed me for $75 on a 10lb box with $50 worth of content. Dooooooooh!
<---------------------------had is first Terminal Dust last night.
 
here's a good one for ya... i know you're on the brew side and not the distribution side, but.... why is it so damned difficult to get things other than the non-standards down here in Juneau? I will say it's gotten better in the past couple of months, but it's a pretty big bummer to see MSBC beers show up in Southern Cal, and Portland before we see them in Juneau... (still haven't seen a bottle of Termination Dust down here yet.)
 
here's a good one for ya... i know you're on the brew side and not the distribution side, but.... why is it so damned difficult to get things other than the non-standards down here in Juneau? I will say it's gotten better in the past couple of months, but it's a pretty big bummer to see MSBC beers show up in Southern Cal, and Portland before we see them in Juneau... (still haven't seen a bottle of Termination Dust down here yet.)
Dear Mr. Blackcloud,

I would like you to know that I have a deep love for SE Alaska that causes most folks in Southcentral to question my sanity. With that said, I have been working hard to get more beer down Juneau way for about a year now. I was the first brewer in the history of MSBC to go to Haines for the beer fest for three, and soon to be four consecutive years. We are working with Specialty Imports to carry our non-regular bottle and keg offerings for Fairbanks, SE Alaska, and the Kenai Peninsula. Specialty did not historically carry Arctic Devil, Berserker, Series Beers, or One-offs until this last year. They now specifically do so in order to serve all our beers to the majority of the citizens of the Great Land. In the last six months we installed a "pre-buy" program for the retailers in SE so as our higher end products come out, they are ordered, consolidated, then shipped your way.
However, Juneau can be a tough market. Apparently there is a brewery there called "Alaskan Brewing Co." or something like that and they own a lot of taps and shelf space. That is a challenge for all of us smaller breweries to overcome in your community. The other challenge is the shipping. Specialty ships the beer via Steamship to Seattle, where it then gets loaded onto the barge for northbound shipping. This is one of two parts of why Juneau may get products a little later. The other part is that our distributor consolidates its loads before shipping, which means there can be a couple week lag time before the product we shipped gets rolling out of their warehouse.
I expect that you will see great improvement over the next year in MSBC beers appearing in your neighborhood.
 
Dear MSBC,
Why did you remove the "vintage year" from the Arctic Devil labels?
Dear Mr. Barleywinefiend,

When we switched to pressure sensitive labels, we ordered a lot of labels due to order minimums. So the year had to come off. We have been experimenting with some other ways to label vintage years but have not really found a reliable and efficient solution. We tried individual bottle cap stickers, but unfortunately that program ended in flames. We lost a lot of good packagers that day...
We are putting in a new, super fancy date coder this next week that should help. However, the good news is that as we expand we should be able to run enough Arctic Devil in the future to meet label order minimums and put that year back on. So my recommendation is to buy and drink as much Arctic Devil as possible. Then we all win.
 
Dear Mr. Barleywinefiend,

When we switched to pressure sensitive labels, we ordered a lot of labels due to order minimums. So the year had to come off. We have been experimenting with some other ways to label vintage years but have not really found a reliable and efficient solution. We tried individual bottle cap stickers, but unfortunately that program ended in flames. We lost a lot of good packagers that day...
We are putting in a new, super fancy date coder this next week that should help. However, the good news is that as we expand we should be able to run enough Arctic Devil in the future to meet label order minimums and put that year back on. So my recommendation is to buy and drink as much Arctic Devil as possible. Then we all win.


Thank you kind Sir.

How many of those first run (2005) Arctic Devil bombers do you guys have stashed?
 
Thank you kind Sir.

How many of those first run (2005) Arctic Devil bombers do you guys have stashed?
Our first run was actually 1999 and we still have 5 bottles left. We were just debating yesterday about releasing some of our cellar collection. I figured we could sell a few bottles on the inter webs to buy our brewery dog a new sweater vest but that idea got shot down. I think we have about a case of '04 Arctic Devils then nothing more until 2010. We will occasionally release some cellar beers for sale at the brewery during the holidays and AK Beer Week.
 
Our first run was actually 1999 and we still have 5 bottles left. We were just debating yesterday about releasing some of our cellar collection. I figured we could sell a few bottles on the inter webs to buy our brewery dog a new sweater vest but that idea got shot down. I think we have about a case of '04 Arctic Devils then nothing more until 2010. We will occasionally release some cellar beers for sale at the brewery during the holidays and AK Beer Week.
I would definitely like to see those vintage Devils for sale. Not to mention others like Big Slick or something.
 
Please do come to Alaska though, it's a wild place for sure. Last frontier is really the truth. I also think we have some amazing breweries up here. Of all the states I have traveled too, I feel like Alaska's breweries have the highest quantity of consistently great beers. It's hard to say which brewery I love best, but I'm never sorry I visit any of them.

First of all, fantastic AMA. Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I was lucky enough to visit Anchorage for work in February 2011 and made sure to stop by MSBC. Many great beers were had there and several were brought back home, and it was cool seeing moose meander through the parking lot. I frequently wear my Midnight Sun hoodie with pride.

You mentioned the amazing breweries and besides you guys, I have to mention Glacier Brewhouse. We went there for dinner one night and I had the Buffalo Trace Eisbock. It left such an impression on me that I stopped by the following two nights for a glass.

I can't wait to visit Anchorage again sometime as a full-time tourist with no coworkers in tow.
 
Dear Mr. Blackcloud,

I would like you to know that I have a deep love for SE Alaska that causes most folks in Southcentral to question my sanity. With that said, I have been working hard to get more beer down Juneau way for about a year now. I was the first brewer in the history of MSBC to go to Haines for the beer fest for three, and soon to be four consecutive years. We are working with Specialty Imports to carry our non-regular bottle and keg offerings for Fairbanks, SE Alaska, and the Kenai Peninsula. Specialty did not historically carry Arctic Devil, Berserker, Series Beers, or One-offs until this last year. They now specifically do so in order to serve all our beers to the majority of the citizens of the Great Land. In the last six months we installed a "pre-buy" program for the retailers in SE so as our higher end products come out, they are ordered, consolidated, then shipped your way.
However, Juneau can be a tough market. Apparently there is a brewery there called "Alaskan Brewing Co." or something like that and they own a lot of taps and shelf space. That is a challenge for all of us smaller breweries to overcome in your community. The other challenge is the shipping. Specialty ships the beer via Steamship to Seattle, where it then gets loaded onto the barge for northbound shipping. This is one of two parts of why Juneau may get products a little later. The other part is that our distributor consolidates its loads before shipping, which means there can be a couple week lag time before the product we shipped gets rolling out of their warehouse.
I expect that you will see great improvement over the next year in MSBC beers appearing in your neighborhood.

Thanks a ton for replying. In my three years in Fairbanks it was nice to see the MSBC availability increase, and I do notice that things have picked up a bit since I got down here in June. And... I agree that Alaskan has a stranglehold on this town. a bit of a bummer to the handful of us here that really want the diversity. Thanks for lookin' out for us down here!
 
Just chiming to say I'm a fan and that Arctic Devil was the first beer to get me really into BA barleywines. Keep up the good work!
 
Just went into brand new High West Distilling Bourbon barrels about two weeks ago. Should be out this early summer... And it was Good!!!
This thread is so great and informative!

Any chance Sloth will get rebrewed?
Anyone have any updates on this? Haven't heard anything about the 2nd release. More time in barrels? Batch went south and had to be dumped? Any updates are thoroughly appreciated.
 
Back
Top